Are Fw-190s hard countered by Spitfires?

I’ve played both planes, and whenever I play Spitfire against Fw-190s, it just feels unfair for them.

Their preferred tactic is BnZ, but they doesn’t work because the Spitfire has a better climbrate, and unless you’re forcing turnfights early, you should be at least even with them in altitude at the beginning.

Their next tactic is a Head-on, but that doesn’t work as you can just dodge the headon (not like they can micro-turn fast enough to keep their guns on you) and then immediately turn vertically. They will either continue their path, losing altitude in the process while you gain, or the less intelligent pilots will try to turn as well, which just gets them killed because the 190 doesn’t turn and the Spit really does.

After a while of failed BnZ and Head-ons, they’ll be low in altitude and become easy pickings for a Spitfire.

Their “ace-up-the-sleeve” the little “roll-reverse” tactic does is less than useless against a Spitfire. So that doesn’t work either.

Just today I had a game with 3 back-to-back 1v2 energy-into-turn fights, and despite low ammo and damage by the last one, I was still able to win them and down my opponents because in each of the 1v2s there was a 190 which I could just ignore for the most part.

Seems like the only thing the 190 can consistently do is third-party dog-fights by diving from altitude, but frankly, every aircraft can do that, and I’d argue the 190 isn’t even particularly good at it.

Maybe it’s just bad pilots, but man the Fw-190 really doesn’t feel ingame like the monster it was supposed to be historically. The “Butcher Bird” is closer to a “Vegan Pigeon” frankly.

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This really depends on the model of Spitfire and 190

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My experience has been mostly Spitfires in the 3.0 to 4.3 BR range, same with Fw 190.

Not hard countered, but spitfires are pretty good.

I think it depends on how you fly it, the air-spawn 190s can rush before spitfires get to altitude pretty well. There’s always the option of sideclimbing.

Also they’re balanced whereas irl it really wasn’t you also mention the 4.3 br, which is where the mk 9 spitfire is, which allowed the spit to fully capitalise on the engine’s possible power as it had for the first time adequate cooling.

But also keep in mind the spitfire evolution, it was nicknamed butcher bird in the times of the mk.1 and 2 spitfires with only 7.62s carborettors that would cut out past a 90 degree roll and weakish engines and airframes that would snap with a single shell. And this was in 1941(?).

However after the spitfire really took off it was much improved into what was supposedly the best dogfighter of WW2 according to several allied papers into the subject.

I haven’t fought against or played as the airspawn Fw-190s. I like the MK9, but frankly I most enjoy the Mk 1a, the 3.0 Spitfire. It’s with the Mk 1a that I’ve been continously demolishing 190s, I only unlocked the Mk9 today.

Huh, interesting, the Mk.1a isn’t bad its just kinda… weak, almost sickly is how I’d describe it, like a track athlete compared to the later spits which are like MMA fighters.

Still they’re hard countering playstyles, one needs a broadside turning engagement, and the other needs a headon frontal engagement. If either plays it right then they can win, but the energy fighting style is very hard to get used to, whereas turnfighting is about managing your lines and reversals which is much easier.

When I first started playing 109’s even i got stomped by zero’s, spits and yaks.

Maybe I’m just new, but I’d hardly describe the Mk.1a as weak.

I don’t like forcing turnfights as the Spitfire. Instead, I like to use its Climb Rate to BnZ. Which puts me in a default advantage state. BnZs will eventually inevitably turn into energy-fights, which with the Spitfire is a seamless transition, continuing my advantage state. Finally energy-fights will inevitably end up as turn-fights, which the Spitfire excels in.

Therefore by having an initial BnZ tactic, you’re effectively in a perpetual advantage state over other planes.

At least that’s how I’ve been playing it.

Not if you are doing it right. The mistake most people make is getting caught at the bottom and drawn into a turn fight (just. one. more. hit…) and then someone bounces you. I guess you just haven’t gotten busted for that. Yet.

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I wouldn’t judge an aircraft by the performance of enemies because the average skill level of Air RB has fell off a cliff.

190As can pretty much control any engagement with early Spits because of the speed difference and engine thermodynamics.

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When I say weak, I don’t mean in terms of flight performance, but 1 shell from a 20mm maybe even a 15 and you’re crippled, so the 190 has some chance in deflection shots.

But also a part of flying spits is knowing when to energy fight and when to turn, as later on you do end up having to blend the two style’s ‘seamlessly’ to be honest I love the aircraft.

Not exactly hard-countered. 190s outrun and outroll Spits, so they’re not helpless. In a 1v1 a spitfire has a definite advantage over a 190 of the same BR, but the 190 is significantly more effective against heavy targets like bombers. So the two simply fill different roles in the game.

fw 190 A series got a massive overheating nerf (A-1 was worst hit) so they’re competitive with spitfires now. Before, the A-1 was much better than the Mk I and II spit, no contest.

The spit is slow, and turning makes it even slower. it floats through the air and is easy to hit, unlike the zero. Most spitfires are overtiered because they either have awful overheat or mediocre real climbrate. Their gun placement is also not good, and the VCs are .3-.7BR higher than they should be.

If you are playing the 190 and the spit dodges the headon, pop takeoff flaps. You now have more time to aim at him, and you pull harder. works every time.

Other than the LF IX the spitfires are possibly the most overrated planes in war thunder.

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Dude - this is nonsense.

The Mk V was the opponent of the early 190s and they got slaughtered - and irl aerial combat has nothing to do with wt.

And your reference to the 4.3 Mk IX - the severe power drop above 4-5 km is together with the rather weak energy retention a main factor why a competent 190 pilot can avoid any turn fight and is able to control the fight.

The 190s in this game suffer simply from countless open and hidden nerfs over the years - severely affecting the FM and flight characteristics.

As stated by other pilots before - the pilot quality in general has severely deteriorated in the last 5 years. Some years ago any high spit got swarmed by 2 to 3 109s whilst the 190s sideclimbed.

I meet them frequently in downtiers whilst flying the B7A2 - and they are one of the easiest victims for energy traps as the majority of the pilots are unaware of the rather bad high alt performance and think they can dogfight everything…

This depends on your opponent and the speed he has - a very fast 190 has the ability for high speed snap shots - you can’t dodge them if your Spit is too slow…

One of the ways to tell if you’re flying a meta plane is to look at who is reacting to who. Are you the aggressor, or the defender? Does the enemy have to make large mistakes to die? - or can you kill them no matter what action they take?

In the spitfire, you are reacting. You are not the aggressor, you are defending against enemy passes and then hoping you will get a shot in return. Victory comes when the enemy sticks the fight - i.e, makes a huge mistake.

By contrast, meta-mobiles like the Yak-3U force the enemy to react because they have such good performance. You don’t win against the 3U because you played it better in your 5.7 prop, you win because he made mistakes. it’s his game to lose.

The spitfire is not meta and it is synonymous with mediocrity.

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From what I’ve seen from 190s, anytime they’re diving on a target and go really fast, if the target realizes what’s happening they can simply do a basic turn, and completely throw off the 190s aim. Since the 190 can’t rly turn, a small adjustment (especially if turning underneath them) will cause them to miss the shot. It’s the easiest dodge in the game. And after doing that, they lose altitude. Do that a few more times and now they don’t have anymore altitude.

Hmh - you were talking about headons, i replied to headons.

Your text refers to dodge a diving 190 - totally different topic.

And you assume that you can generate energy whilst turning below them - actually you lose energy with your turn. Any proper flown BnZ fighter relies on energy losses of the target whilst evading and if flown correctly the attacked plane loses more energy than the attacker. The ultimate goal is to push good turners low and slow with multiple attacks - the loss in altitude denies them sooner or later to pick up the necessary speed to dodge.

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Thanks for the reply. I think my reasoning applies to headons as well.

Dodging a 190 Headon is such an effortless maneuver that you don’t really need or spend a lot of energy. Same thing with BnZ tactics, dodging a 190 BnZ is also effortless, as just a slight turn throws them off.

I’ve been finding myself continously gaining an energy advantage against 190s trying to BnZ/Headon me, as my dodges are low-effort.

Their energy retention sometimes backfires, as after failing the BnZ, their high speed creates such seperation that they give me way too much space, allowing me to recover easily whatever little I lost.

This is opposite to what happens when I’m against a Bf-109 who more easily achieves and retains his energy advantage, as I need to use more effort on the dodge, and the 109 has a better climbrate.

I struggle to see why someone would choose the 190 over the 109 in War Thunder.

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All I know is that I’m currently spading a 1941 Spitfire that has the same BR as a 1944 Fw 190.
Not having a great time 😂

Early Spitfires have good turn and climb but they are slower than anything other than a Zero.

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The 190s don’t know how to 190.

when the 190 pops takeoff flaps in the headon it pulls more and goes slower so it has more time to shoot. It rolls too well to dodge. If I miss a headon shot on a spitfire in my 190, that’s my fault. you can’t really do anything about it esp. against the A-8 which is a headon king.

The A-5s all got nerfed but otherwise 190s are intimidating in the headon.

If you think ‘a slight turn’ will throw them off then you are in for a world of pain when you fight a competent 190 player.

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Also faster than the Re.2005… turn better too, climb more or less the same under 4K. But surely the 2005 should be sitting on 6.0… Maybe the Spit Vs should join it :)