No, Ground Arcade Battles isn’t meaningless. Its air component is.
My bad, misunderstood you there.
Still - the air component isn’t meaningless:
For one, there are vehicles that wouldn’t have their natural counters in planes like light tanks and open top SPGs, SPAAs wouldn’t have planes to shoot at in GFAB if they removed the planes.
Secondly combined arms give room for more variety of seasonal tasks and challenges, and overall gameplay variety.
Finally gaijin wants the game to be combined arms, so it’s not meaningless to them them, and also planes do affect the match outcome, so they do have meaning. They are meaningless in AB for the grind - yes, but it seems their existence is for players to steadily get introduced to plane trees and RB. It’s an in-game advertisement which makes it so that once you’re bored with one mode, you may jump into another mode or tech tree instead of picking another game.
They’re not meaningless…
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I disagree.
Light tanks and open top SPGs can be countered with HE shells.
Yes which is why Realistic Battles should remain combined arms.
Yes, Gaijin wants the game to be combined arms. If they insist on the air component of Ground Arcade battles to remain in the game they should model it so you can use your own vehicles as the spawned vehicle.
Planes do not seriously effect the outcome of a match in Ground Arcade battles unless 10 tanks were stacked on a single position. The reason they have an effect in Ground Realistic battles is due to the ability to rearm and engage multiple targets, especially at high tier. In Arcade battles you’re lucky to kill 3 tanks.
No, they actually do. They create snowballing effect. The team that is winning with kills for a moment in a way that noone from other team has a chance to do an interceptor run, OR they do it and get spawned to far away, the winning team will be able to precisely drop bombs from high altitude on tanks that are in positions where they can’t move away without being hit, so they either get killed with bombs, or they move and get immobilised by ground units and killed off. I often get only hits on the targets that moved away from my bombs to later get multiple assists from those being killed right away.
I did play a lot with VFW and it let me get 3 kills fast enough before anyone else can counter it, when it happens and you do an effective bombing run, you decide whole match right away. I once did it on Berlin with one objective in front of the Reichstag while just two of my squad mates from my squadron blocked enemy team from rushing towards the point for a moment by rushing there with light tanks - no actual cooperation to do it, it just happened. I dropped 14 bombs and got like 12 kills and it was all over, our team rushed to their spawn and the match was done in like 3 minutes.
The problem with arcade is that RNG decides whether you’re able to do it, IF you’re fast enough like I said above, or if your team is not winning already, but still there are times when you will change the tide of battle with it. So it’s not meaningless. It’s still “RNG” having a big effect on that, but that’s a separate topic. You have a chance of effectively affecting the battle outcome with bombs.
The reason they have effect in RB is that you have your own plane with your own selected loadout that you know how to use and is fully spaded and also most of the players don’t know how to precisely estimate lead and hit you unless you strafe right at their SPAA.
In arcade if you know what you’re doing and RNG isn’t putting interceptors right on your tail, you can effectively get kills with like 50% of your bombs, except for the small crap like those from 25 bombs Shackleton, and do the bombing runs multiple times in a single match. I often have like 12 to 16 kills, where only 7 to 9 are in tank and rest is from bombing runs. It doesn’t mean everyone can do this effectively, but it means that one skilled player in each match can affect the outcome of the match with the bombing runs.
BIt interesting to see that people in arcade adapted very quickly to no nametags when you fly a plane for 30 or 40 seconds.
Situational.
Yes.
You’re not getting 12-16 kills a match with Ground Arcade with the arcade planes.
I’m getting 12 - 16 kills in total where 30-40% of the kills are from bombing.
Here’s proof:
Actually back when there was Kursk map before they added rails and made it Arc of Fire, I had matches where I got 23-27 kills there and on that one long range variant of Mozdok, but that’s unique map.
Anyway it’s possible to have this amount of kills in mid tiers in arcade thanks to bombers because without them it’d be under 10.
Wild.
I play since 2013, I play a lot and I play mostly AB. I do play jets in air RB sometimes, but I really don’t like ground RB and how it plays… Also I like planes in ground battles.
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By you killing so many players in AB with CAS, you are proving that CAS is unbalanced and uncompetitive
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Which is fine. You don’t need planes in Ground Arcade Battles.
If you like, count out the last two weeks. Or count 100 random pages from the last two weeks. Or use the filters to look at battles per time span. Whatever I did in the past, arcade wins hands down.
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What I would like is for Gaijin to publish statistics about the game and its vehicles so players can form opinions logically. Gaijin at the moment doesn’t feel this is something that would benefit the community. There is no data to show that Arcade has more players than Realistic.
Ground Realistic Battles has been the dominant game mode since around when MBTs were added. This doesn’t mean that Ground Arcade Battles should be removed. It does mean that making the argument for the presence of CAS is irrelevant as the main game mode already features CAS.
Allow Ground Arcade Battles to be the side game mode it was designed to be by offering it as a compromise for players who wish to only play tank battles.
Actually I do, usually a large part of my RP in AB ground comes from planes, either spawning in bombers/ attackers or shooting them down.
That is correct. But there is (easily accessible) data that Arcade is played way more frequently than Realistic. It only takes a few clicks to check it out.
In order to maintain that more people play realistic despite there being many more arcade matches, you would have to assume that the ‘few’ arcade players play way more than the ‘many’ realistic players do. That would skew the match numbers as you would like to see it. And you would have to find a convincing reason for this to happen.
So your insistance on realistic as the main mode seems to border on deep denial. Access the server data and look yourself.
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Exactly, and even more - note that I have VFW which is really OP vehicle. And every BR has some of those that this nation has the best OP premium/even or even tech tree vehicle.
And with Air Mission, what is happening here is that if I want to take a plane to score more kills, I just have to get to cover with my VFW/any other OP vehicle, go do a bombing run and get back to the tank and keep doing more kills. In RB/naval AB system, I would have to ditch this OP vehicle right when I have points for the plane, OR I would have to play till I get killed and only then jump into plane - in either case, there’s added cost of jumping into the plane that doesn’t exist in arcade.
Also I’m pushing for the naval AB-like spawn system because there needs to be a trade-off in such a change. If Gaijin where to make ground AB a tank-only mode, they’re giving up the promotion/introduction of players to planes as well as connecting combined arms tasks to this mode. If we go with naval AB-like spawn system, there is incentive for them to do this because it opens up ground AB players to grinding aircraft tech trees and buying premiums.
This is about the spawn mechanic though (because someone will start complaining about balance) and is completely separate from the balance - mechanic is a system and balance is the data fed into the system - two separate topics. Current spawn mechanic is made in a way that whatever we do, there’s always going to be someone that pulls the shorter stick in RNG, and if we would nerf the planes in general, people would stop playing them, so it’s not going to happen - not acceptable from gaijin perspective.
We can have naval AB-like spawn system that has different balance than what is there in naval AB - we can have for example -1.0 BR offset even, so for example playing 3.7 BR lineup, you can take planes up to 2.7 and not like in naval where there’s +0.7 BR offset because there’s a difference balance of power between then plane and a big vessel with a lot of guns. Also whether bombs should explode instantly, whether planes should reload mid air, land on airfield or fly low over it to reload bomb, whether the ground targeting marker should be there for early planes etc - that’s all balance data that can be fixed later on - some things need to be broken first and parts completely changed to be fixed.
I asked questions, you creatively avoided them and threw even more rabbit hole comments. I refuse to be dragged into that.
You do not even realise this is about making GFAB fully TO (no new mode) and for GFRB to be the Combined mode. Yes, your comments have been centred around RB which is not in discussion here even though I pointed this to you multiple times, which you ignore with: “There’s nothing to be engaged with.”. Yes, your flip flopping on what I originally said is derailment and you continue to forget you jumped on my comment regarding a mode you do not play.
You have 200 battles in this mode you are supposedly “adding to how it could be implemented” and come discussing RB, which in this topic would stay Combined with no TO for it, which is NOT your position as I know you play GFRB and would very much want a space with no aircrafft. Again I brought this to you multiple times and you ignore it "as nothing to be engaged with). Stop being disingenuous, you were triggered enough to jump on my comment and it is very clear.
Shady? How? I practice what I preach. It is clear WT from a few weeks after Ground Beta that both AB and RB would be Combined (so many many years), we all came to this game knowing that TO was not there. Yes you can ask for the mode, the point you fail to understand is that criticising current GFs is not helping anyone convince Gaijin to introduce a new mode just for them (and everyone off course, I would have played it too if it existed, but it doesn’t). Yes, people can criticise, but if they then for YEARS play the modes and pretty much add to the “issue” of CAS becoming more OP (Aircraft have advantages, but these advantages are reduced if they get shot down, so avoiding air trees is a choice with over arching negative impacts - if you are just a tanker or pilot then sorry but I feel the game should not cater to you outside of what is already on offer, it is for players not niche users who then moan that things are not to their liking) then this is not proactive at all and in my opinion should be ignored as a reason for TO (the reason for me would be different dynamic in TO modes, and yes, easier in RB (not the subject here) as you could ignore researching air, but this is about AB not RB). “I hate your Combined GF, give me a TO” has so far 100% failed, yes?
The reason why people are negative to these “Suggestion” topics is due to the sheer number of them. Yes, it shows people want TO options, but it also shows Gaijin have no interest (currently).
While there is no TO take ADVICE for making CAS less annoying. Which is why I spent a lot of time with fighters to help my teams with the aircraft issue. (then get attacked a fair amount for pointing this out even though one off the longest running TO advocates also agrees). UNTIL there is TO I will promote positive action over just asking for a new mode, which Gaijin obviously are aware of since they answered the general question on it a long time back and there is no movement as yet.
Which shows you do not understand what I said and my opinion on the subject which I have always been clear about, even if you choose to ignore it again and again (hence your replies).
YES, IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE GAME YOU PLAY (SUCH AS FOR THOSE WHOE OPINION IS AGF IS BAD BECAUSE OF AIRCRAFT AND MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY) GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE.
I did! Much happier. So don’t get triggered because you failed to play any air and so are in that aspect dead weight for your team (not criticising your ground use of course).
Or are you saying that, if Gaijin never ever add any TO option, people should continue to moan and moan and not try to make the situation better with the tools we already have (later part being the more important element)? Which is the opposite of what I have said and you apparently take umbrage with.
And I know this is probably not what you really think but here you are supporting AB to be TO and RB to never be TO. Is this your actual opinion? Since I put this to you too many times yet “nothing to engage with” (aka you are being disingenuous as hell).
Yes, he is, cause it’s not cause we can’t use CAS that we don’t want it to be balanced against tanks, that’s why some of us don’t ask for a tank only mode that would make SPAAs mostly useless or some OP tanks even more tough to beat but instead ask for improvements and balancing, or for a different CAS system like we have in naval.
@MotorolaCRO @CoffeeBean100 - just started chewing through your argument…
Squadron battles work like this, they worked like this when arcade SQB was still available. This sucks if the only ground targets in game are players, matches are mostly decided by first clash in the air for AB, in RB it may be slightly different, because of 4 planes limit, but still it’s a nuisance for ground.
I think it’s called Playing the Objective, and it’s a way for bombers to have something to do and way to grind - nothing wrong about it.
For one, if vehicles in the game are supposed to be “realistic” in their features, stats, strengths and weaknesses, then not adding natural threats for specific types of vehicles would make them over powered. For two, this game is made in a way that you should jump between branches to grind something else instead of playing a different game when you get bored of playing tanks. The argument is in gaijin’s ownership and power to do what they want/need to do to make money.
There is nothing about leaving GFRB as is or changing it to TO mode in the opening post. We’re mostly arcade-only players here and as such discussing RB mode as well is not something we should be interested in - this would just bring those players to the discussion making even more mess here as RB players tend to come and just state AB should stay as it is because they’re treating it as a risk that some resources would be spent on fixing AB instead of RB etc.
Anyway, you’re in the wrong insinuating that there is anything in the topic itself defining that GFRB should be or not be TO when GFAB would be the TO mode.
This is a more complex topic here… I agree that TO is most likely not going to happen, but still everyone has the right to suggest and discuss things. And also IF everyone wanting to play TO mode would actually submit that request in the poll that just closed today, then maybe we would have an actual focus of devs in the roadmap of the CAS problem in arcade. It doesn’t matter they wouldn’t explicitly implement TO mode, but wanting TO mode shows there is a problem with CAS for players.
Moreover you are really in the wrong when you are pointing out that a new player with 200 matches shouldn’t really be voicing his opinions - new players are actually the ones that matter the most for a GaaS game - once you’re hooked and you’re playing for many hours, you’re generating costs and only giving them retention unless you’re spending a lot. But new players are the ones that are the chance to be converted into those that spend a lot and potentially stop playing, and get back when something new is there, buy new stuff, play a bit and stop playing again etc. Those spending a lot but not playing a lot are most valuable, I think. And thus buying into top tiers is possible.
Assuming that replays website shows all recent matches, you can actually data mine it - making an actual data mine in the meaning of the term and not by looking at client files lol as gaijin wants us to believe what data mine is - and there was such data mine made few years back:
Without actually diving into the numbers of players, but having data on matches, you could actually count it, so the data is there. The difference is usually minor in terms of slightly more matches of GFAB than GFRB, but it’s possible to get the data.
I think that IF gaijin was supporting AB CCs instead of RB, because they have reason to promote RB, we would have completely opposite situation where AB community would be most vocal while RB would be treated in community as something hardcore that not many people want to engage with if most of the vocal players in the community were AB players. Both modes have their fans and both are valid and should not be diminished.