Arcade Battle should be changed to pure tank battles

[SaperPL]

@O_HOgameplay

Because those were used against high flying bombers, with awfully low efficiency. IRL something like 1000 shells from those calibre ranges (~75-128mm) were needed to shoot down a single bomber.

But mechanically it was done in a way that there was a separate (not connected to a rangefinder/gun) that let you set specific fuse time. It would make sense in the game to have a way of setting it and easiest way they could do it, would be to connect it to sight distance control setting through a scroll wheel because that number value already exists in the game.

@O_HOgameplay

So if i set the distance to 700m, then it will not explode at 700m? Yeah, i am the one who does not know what i am saying. Sure buddy.

I never said that. What I mean, which should be obvious, is that you should be setting the range that you are expecting the plane to be at when the shell reaches it, so it has to be lower range than the rangefinder value. Also assuming same distance, it would mean that what? you’re only shooting at the planes when they are exactly above you because earlier you cannot have the fuse time different than figured out through rangefinding? That is my point. It’s not an altitude fuse, but a VT fuse.

@O_HOgameplay

Which is an instant in Arcade. Yes, it is an issue, that you can not use this against anything moving, since the distance you set is not going to be correct, since the enmy is moving. Adjusting with scroll wheel however would not make it anyway more effective. Since the guns that have these shells usually small calibre (up to 88mm), all having less than 1kg explosive mass, meaning, you would have to make it explode a meter or less from the plane, which is not different from directly hitting it.
Even the 155mm proxy shells have a large chance to either crit, or just get a “hit” when 10kg+ explosive explodes 3m away from the plane.

But if you are “near-missing” the plane strafing at you, figuring out how much closer you have to set the fuse could let you do something. Anyway - with scroll wheel, you could be using it against open top vehicles right behind the cover/hill. Not sure about effectivenes - like you said, might need to be really close, but often it is really close and rangefinding will make it explode in front.

@O_HOgameplay

If you hit the front of an open back vehicle with HE, it will take OP damage…

Not if it’s behind an edge of the hill, or rocks on finland, or covers on sweden. With Brummbar or Sturmpanzer yeah - you can use the trajectory, but with others, not. This is where it could be useful.

@O_HOgameplay

Like it will likely explode anywhere from 490-510m for example. Because even with that accuracy, it is basically useless aaginst anything. If in game it explodes exactly where you set it, then okay, but even then, it would not be any more useful than a standard HE shell.

If it’s like you said, in ±10m range, the usefulness will depend on how close it has to be to deal damage. Taking care of something like sturer emil or dicker max when he’s reloading in cover when you can send few shots there - could be useful or could be not. My point is in that we don’t know because implementation of setting the fuse is stupid, and I’m not the only one pointing it out - Phly made 2 or 3 videos about it and the suggestion was passed to devs for it to be handled.

aaanddd at some point I realised all the rest is rubbish because you want 100% way of being able to defend against CAS and it’s not going happened and I’m tired of this back and forth when you know everything and when I show you that you’re in the wrong, you bail out with even more stupid edge cases that don’t matter overall, what matters is the average experience…

[O_HOgameplay]

@SaperPL

But mechanically it was done in a way that there was a separate (not connected to a rangefinder/gun) that let you set specific fuse time. It would make sense in the game to have a way of setting it and easiest way they could do it, would be to connect it to sight distance control setting through a scroll wheel because that number value already exists in the game.

I don’t deny it. But then there should be also a way to set the distance without setting it a time fuse.
So you can either set fuse (and zero your gun to that distance), and a second mode, where you just zero the gun, but don’t set time fuse (so it will have impact fuse).

@SaperPL

Not sure about effectivenes - like you said, might need to be really close, but often it is really close and rangefinding will make it explode in front.

Effectiveness woill be very low. Also, these shells are 75-88mm, so they essentially need a direct hit even on an open top.
Even at this distance, it is not a 1shot, and this is the 88mm gun against a fully open top from ~1-2m.

@SaperPL

Not if it’s behind an edge of the hill, or rocks on finland, or covers on sweden.

I said if you hit it.

@SaperPL

With Brummbar or Sturmpanzer yeah - you can use the trajectory, but with others, not. This is where it could be useful.

Sure, it would be useful in that 1 in a 10k game.
Don’t get me, i would welcome this into the game, it just would not be usefuly often.

@SaperPL

when I show you that you’re in the wrong

Show me? Where? All you do is go on a rambling.

@SaperPL

you bail out with even more stupid edge cases that don’t matter overall,

I bail out? those edge cases are the majority, but okay.
I don’t know who had one of his main argument the “BP challenges, that often give back the exact one you rerolled” “argument”, and others like that :)
Also, i bail out, yeah, because you said anything to the rest of my comment.
Oh wait, you just bailed out. The irony.

[Anubis0006]

I dont want only battle tanks in GF AB. BUT! AA should be get a buff. It can not be, that light tanks without a radar are better AAs as the real AAs with radar and following radar.

S38 and Begleitpanzer are some examples.

Within the AAs there should be a difference to, these with search radar MUST have a better standing as these without it, like Strela!

[Redcap375]

Until they get rid of planes in Tank mode, the game will always be broken and not worth investing any serious time into.

[Anubis0006]

Thats why many long time players, like me, dont spent the time and money for the game as they did like some time ago…

[DerLachendeMann]

As a long time player I love CAS in ground battles. On the other hand I wouldn’t really care either way if they took CAS ot of RB games… but AB planes should definitely stay.

[O_HOgameplay]

@DerLachendeMann

but AB planes should definitely stay.

Why? Because it is even easier to use it?
How interesting, that Air players don’t have to worry about getting helplessly killed by an unfair mechanic, that allows trash players to still get kills?!

[Vamilad]

Why?

[DerLachendeMann]

@O_HOgameplay

Why? Because it is even easier to use it?
How interesting, that Air players don’t have to worry about getting helplessly killed by an unfair mechanic, that allows trash players to still get kills?!

Today I chose Bird Hunt as my special task - destroy 18 planes in ground battles. It’s not the fastest as tasks go, it depends on the opposing team, but I got time, some spaa to spade and need points for the tanker mark of distinction, shooting down planes gives good score.

Also, if you’d play air you’d know that air players actually have moments where they ‘have to worry about getting helplessly killed by an unfair mechanic’…
In ground battles both sides start with the same conditions, so I don’t see how CAS would be unfair? Unfair would be if only one side would get CAS…

[Dodo_Dud]

@O_HOgameplay

How interesting, that Air players don’t have to worry about getting helplessly killed by an unfair mechanic, that allows trash players to still get kills?!

Would you please care to rewrite this into something less convoluted and easier to understand?

[DerLachendeMann]

I read up a bit on your posts, and I think this here is the problem :

@O_HOgameplay

There are 3 sides at least. There is Gaijin, the tankers, and CAS players.

There are no CAS players from the get go, there are tank players that can be divided into the part that uses every tool Gaijin provides them, and the part that doesn’t, for whatever reason.

[O_HOgameplay]

@DerLachendeMann

Today I chose Bird Hunt as my special task - destroy 18 planes in ground battles. It’s not the fastest as tasks go, it depends on the opposing team, but I got time, some spaa to spade and need points for the tanker mark of distinction, shooting down planes gives good score.

So what?

@DerLachendeMann

Also, if you’d play air you’d know that air players actually have moments where they ‘have to worry about getting helplessly killed by an unfair mechanic’…

Is that mechanic a player controlled vehicle, that is a completly different type (maning, that it is not a plane)?

@DerLachendeMann

In ground battles both sides start with the same conditions, so I don’t see how CAS would be unfair? Unfair would be if only one side would get CAS…

Because to be good in a tank, you need to learn a uge amount of things to be competetive.
You have to learn absolutely nothing with planes to kill tanks. That’s why it is unfair.
Let’s just look at this guy. In a fair fight, meaning both of us being in a tank, he would have stood no chance. Yet, i stood no chance against him 2x, because he just pressed his space bar 2x, and i dide, while having absolutely zero chance of avoiding it, or defending myself.

@Dodo_Dud

Would you please care to rewrite this into something less convoluted and easier to understand?

Air mode players do not have to worry about a player controlled long range AA system for example. Their mode is air only. They don’t hvae a horribly unfair mechanic, that planes stand no chance against.

[DerLachendeMann]

@O_HOgameplay

So what?

So I actually need the opponent to spawn in planes to be able to do that task…

@O_HOgameplay

Is that mechanic a player controlled vehicle, that is a completly different type (maning, that it is not a plane)?

It’s plane vs plane, due to matchmaking, I find it rather unfair when one guy got missiles, the other guy doesn’t, nor had he flares, and he goes about half the speed maximum. Or one guy has all aspect missiles, the other guy has to actually get behind a plane.

@O_HOgameplay

Because to be good in a tank, you need to learn a uge amount of things to be competetive.
You have to learn absolutely nothing with planes to kill tanks. That’s why it is unfair.
Let’s just look at this guy. In a fair fight, meaning both of us being in a tank, he would have stood no chance. Yet, i stood no chance against him 2x, because he just pressed his space bar 2x, and i dide, while having absolutely zero chance of avoiding it, or defending myself.

Generally you don’t just spawn in a plane in ground battles coz you want to, you actually need to get some kills first. Also, pretending you stand no chance is just defeatist, Fire at him, get into an spaa occasionally (seems you don’t do that much…), don’t stay static.

In ground AB bombs got already modified ages ago, they have a rather long fuse set, so either they’ll get dropped from high altitude and the guy has to estimate where you might be, or he drops from low, and the bomb just sits next to you giving you quite enough time to get away usually…
Seems to me it’s not so much that you’re defenseless, it’s more like you act like a deer in the headlight, THE BOMB HAS BEEN DROPPED, OMG I’M DEAD…

If you’re so good in tanks you should have plenty opportunity to use these bombers yourself…Or go up in a fighter and try to prevent the bomber from dropping.

[O_HOgameplay]

@DerLachendeMann

So I actually need the opponent to spawn in planes to be able to do that task…

And? you can reroll them for basically no cost.
Or even you can just ignore them, and wait until they reroll naturally.

@DerLachendeMann

It’s plane vs plane, due to matchmaking, I find it rather unfair when one guy got missiles, the other guy doesn’t, nor had he flares, and he goes about half the speed maximum. Or one guy has all aspect missiles, the other guy has to actually get behind a plane.

And these all are down to balancing. Just like with tanks. There are KV-1Bs, Obj 279s, Brummbärs, etc, that can single handedly annihilate large number of enemies even when used by bad players.
Air players don’t have to worry about getting hit by a Patriot from 100km. Yet tanks have to worry about getting killed from kms away while having no counter to it.

@DerLachendeMann

Generally you don’t just spawn in a plane in ground battles coz you want to, you actually need to get some kills first.

Even assists will do in arcade. In an other thread i posted about players getting a single tank kill with CAS (and then getting 1-2 plane kills after that).

@DerLachendeMann

Fire at him

With many times no roof MG, or not enough gun elevation. Or i am just already occupied by fighting other tanks.

@DerLachendeMann

get into an spaa occasionally

Which is not effective. Also, with SPAA, i have no impact on the game.

@DerLachendeMann

seems you don’t do that much…

For a good reason.

@DerLachendeMann

don’t stay static.

Mobility kills exists. Capping bases exists. Being in a position, where i can’t move, otherwise i get killed by tanks.

@DerLachendeMann

and the bomb just sits next to you giving you quite enough time to get away usually…

Not for the already explained reasons.
Rockets, and missiles also exists, as well as cannons.

There are also bombs that are dropped from low altitude and blow up instantly, or just after a second.

Also, lightly armored tanks can still get killed from far away, and even armored tanks can get their guns/tracks blown off.

On the SPAA note, you have only 4 SPAAs, with better or same win rate than your average (only from those with at least 100 games). This is also a good indicator, that SPAA is just a net negative for the team.

@DerLachendeMann

Seems to me it’s not so much that you’re defenseless, it’s more like you act like a deer in the headlight, THE BOMB HAS BEEN DROPPED, OMG I’M DEAD

Because most of the time i get killed by bombs are because i can not move. Tho recently i am just quickly leaving my tank, and not giving a kill to the no skill players if a bombs is going to kill me.

@DerLachendeMann

If you’re so good in tanks you should have plenty opportunity to use these bombers yourself…

I am not doing it, because i have morality, and i don’t use them. The only exceptions, when i wanted to make a video on them, and when someone kills me with planes, then i will attempt to give them a taste of their own medicine.

@DerLachendeMann

Or go up in a fighter and try to prevent the bomber from dropping.

I can’t, because, you know, i am fighting tanks with my tank :)

[DerLachendeMann]

What all that boils down to is, you’re set playing your way and you want the game to adapt to you instead of you adapting to the game…

I just have to hope that all stays as it is, and Gaijin doesn’t listen too much to the whims of every random casual player that has an opinion on what the game should be.

[O_HOgameplay]

@DerLachendeMann

What all that boils down to is, you’re set playing your way and you want the game to adapt to you instead of you adapting to the game…

No. I am raising awearness of an issue. It is factually an issue. CAS is unfair, and unbalanced.

Regardless, what is your issue with a TO mode? I don’t want the current mode to be removed, i just want a second mode, where skill matters.

[Dodo_Dud]

@O_HOgameplay

Tho recently i am just quickly leaving my tank, and not giving a kill to the no skill players if a bombs is going to kill me.

@O_HOgameplay

I am not doing it, because i have morality, and i don’t use them.

If I get to define what morality is and is not, I am instantly a saint.
Edit: Thank you for illustrating my statement below.

[O_HOgameplay]

@Dodo_Dud

If I get to define what morality is and is not, I am instantly a saint.

1, i am not giving a kills to those, who don’t deserve it.
2, as i said, i will not use CAS, because it is not moarl to use, because it is unfair.

[Redcap375]

There is some seriously deluded people in this forum thinking planes are alright in a tank game. Only those that wanna keep their train sets stand behind them with no thought about the game. That’s the life we live in, who cares right?

[LiteralStone-psn]

How are you concluding that “not many people play arcade”? Is there some information that shows player count by mode? Genuinely curious if this information is available from Gaijin.