Giving players a quicker punishment than teamkilling, teamkilling kicks after 2 kills, for attacking enemies is awful.
Would 100% end up getting horrible bugs. Plus would make no sense to have enemies be immune to damage. The current spawn protection is probably the limit to that kind of mechanic.
I would prefer if the damage ping was removed completely for planes and added the uav system where planes can ping areas. Just give it a decent cooldown
No problem. Same here.
Imho most of the participants feel the same - so the missing consolidation of identical threads prevents to distinguish between similar content (=Aircraft in Ground modes) and different tasks & roles (CAP vs CAS, BAI & AI).
The main difference are area of interactions for attackers and defenders.
CAP has to fight:
And wt still uses Korea war terms and game play set up - whilst offering 4th gen aircraft - that does not fit together.
A small table:
Have a good one!
This is the main reason for discussions - to collect different views on the same topic in order to find a sound solution.
So if you are not happy with an auto kick - gaijin has to find a way to solve such an obstacle properly…
Easily solved by not allowing first spawn aircraft. This should extend to helis too. Fighters are much cheaper to spawn than cas so fighters should already be up prior to cas arriving.
Main change needed for cas is for load out sp costs to be itemised. Each bomb/rocket/missile should cost sp. Current system is basiclly “1 gbu=120sp and 6gbu=120sp”. It should be “1gbu=60sp and 6gbu=360sp”.
Not sure what the exact cost should be but this system would lower the average amount that cas carries into battles as well as providing more use to munitions that get looked over.
You can try to spawn with helicopters that have access to the AAMs to prevent some CAS. You can spawn at first with them. Most of them has IRCCM tho. if you are talking about lower BRs than helis, then there is an even cheaper option, use some SPAA, they are purely made for this situation. Give them a bit of reason to get played, other than being TD, like ZSU-57-2 or the Lvkv.
I am using this unknown power at lower BRs, like there is more than 6 planes on US side, then I am showing up with SPAA, cuz no one in our team would. Then I suddenly have 5 air kills. the other one more likely to chose to be pancaked on the ground.
My secret sauce is FlakPanzer 341 aka Coelian. its nice to have a roof on a low br spaa tbh.
The key word here is “should”.
Imho this quote followed by your additional comment describes quite precisely the dilemma situation of wt:
Experienced players tend to oversimplify certain aspects of the game as their experience advantage made them “battle-hardened” as they see things more sober and are able to adopt.
vs
Less experienced players tend to base their decision making process on quick wins following the reward scheme set by gaijin unable to make the right tactical or strategic decision within the games or whi,lst playing wt in general.
So whilst you are working on optimizing the already existing game layout, the overwhelming majority of players is trapped in the circle of “live, die, repeat” and has not the experience to come to the right conclusions at the “right” point in time.
The question therefore is if you are happy if you see the current set-up of the combined arms mode or not - and have you arranged yourself with this cycle:
Imho you see in all modes except SB that the experienced players see that actual skill become less important - gaijin tries with map designs, lobby population, game mechanics, etc to reduce requirements like skill, tactics & strategy in oder to please the majority of rookie players.
In contrast experienced players try to add complexity layers (like your example of adjusting SP) which contradicts gaijins’ way of thinking.
So adding a few slots for CAP duties would add a more realistic experience and won’t affect the game play by taking something away - it makes no difference for the outcome if you add realistic air battle scenarios as you would still see 60% of your team at the bottom of the leader board (with 0 game impact) but it would increase the options to participate.
As outlined earlier and seen in countless other threads CAS aircraft fulfill the role of a “power-up” - lowering the skill floor to get ground kills due to their conceptual advantage based on the way they are implemented.
And there is technically seen nothing wrong with this approach as almost every shooter follows this logic: Getting an advantage in order to leverage their game impact - or just to increase the number of kills.
Even if the OP is unable to change his wording (as requested in this post) he is at least correct regarding the flaw within this set-up:
WT is trapped in this unrealistic cycle and the game play is far from being realistic as it is stuck somewhere between 1940 and 1950.
Modern combined arms warfare works completely different and foresees a battle of air superiority in parallel at worst and upfront at best - and is based on eliminating enemy air defenses in order to allow own CAS to have an impact.
If you watched some of the vids the fellow player @ULQ_LOVER has published in the last years or just recent months, the air superiority part is mostly totally absent as the majority of less experienced players is simply unable to come to the right conclusions - in a match and whilst playing wt in general.
And therefore the underlying idea (at least how i see things) of a first spawn in an aircraft (without A2G impact) has not the goal to prevent experienced players to leverage their experience advantage with CAS - it is aimed to increase realism and to prevent a further deterioration of combined arms warfare.
Have a good one!
First spawning fighters is a terrible idea.
CAS isn’t even allowed first spawn so it’s not even necessary.
Also other topics already exist.
Fighters have to cost more than the SP you get at the start.
And CAS has to be more expensive [it is].
This “ignore” function within the forum works perfect…
Why?
Helicopters can spawn immediately with access to rockets.
If you can spawn in a plane with guided munitions after driving on to a capture point I don’t agree that it is “expensive”.
Cause teams that spawn fighters would lose the match for their team instantly.
The enemy team only needs to avoid spawning CAS, and they win purely based on superior playercount over the enemy.
The fighters can’t get kills, thus can only return to the hangar after spawning.
Which are far less effective than CAS, and people return to the hangar leaving their team with one less player per helicopter.
The SP required is 850.
You spawn with 350 left in a full uptier. Capturing a point gives you around 150 SP.
Barely enough for a fighter let alone any type of CAS.
Why should the spawn cost of a fighter not be equal to that of a medium / heavy tank or better an SPAA?
Yet CAS is immediately present in the game. People can return to their hanger but they can also stay in the battle. It’s up to the player same as it is with ODL on the ground.
For a full load of the most advanced weaponry sure, not for Laser Guided bombs or other munitions like AS-30Ls.
If you spawn as an MBT, sure. Capturing gives you 150 SP, scouts give you % discount on spawning planes if the target is killed which at the beginning of the game is rather frequent. Even ignoring the ability to also get a single trade, you can be up in the air with guided munitions in 60 seconds flat.
It isn’t. The fastest a CAS can spawn is in a full uptier, someone spawns, caps, and gets a kill assist/kill.
That’s about 3 minutes.
Cheapest CAS is ~520SP.
Depends entirely on the map size.
Maybe the cheapest CAS should be ~850SP and a full load should be ~1500SP.
Most players who cry about CAS do not carry CAP and CAS, but only SPAA. However, SPAA cannot OP and quickly process CAS. What can truly quickly process CAS is CAP, and the SP required for CAP is almost half less than that of CAS!
Yeah. I ususally carry 1 CAS/multipurpose plane and 1 dedicated fighter in a lineup.
My Chinese queue likes to carry one CAS and one CAP that can use rockets or bombs for ground support, as well as a helicopter. My CAP or HELI often shot down enemy CAS and CAP or HELI, and sometimes even my CAS would choose to discard the mount and prioritize dealing with enemy CAS. In most cases, they are really much more effective than SPAA.
The issue there is that fighters by themselves don’t have anything to do unless there is a somewhat constant stream of CAS aircraft being spawned. So very few players have a reason to bring out their fighters unless the enemy has something in the air.
I’ve thought about this for years now but why not just allow CAP aircraft to first spawn RB GF, For it would be taking a page out of SB GF with its first spawn ruleset.
But for RB it might be difficult at lower BR’s unless your were to force aircraft to only carry Air Target belts which would nullify their effects on some armour (of course soft skins & open tops remain to suffer).
But at extreme higher BR’s 9.0+ probably allow fighters & interceptors to first spawn either with cannons armament limitations like mentioned eariler or give every nation a gunless interceptors only armed with missiles, Take example a MiG-21SPS-K, MiG-21S or the Étendard IVM/Super or a Mirage IIIC/IIIE/IIICJ/ 2000D-R1 & AJ37/AJS37 (without the cannon pods) But all of these loaded up with missiles.
I think CAP should come to GF as first spawns or at least be trialled for once like they did with those recent tests on the last dev sever with the mire advance missiles or the current event that’s testing a few things.
Plus it would probably aid with a reduction of all these poxy & daft CAS threads in this blasted forum.
Currently you can bring out CAP very soon after match start.
Even with fighter first, in fact in some cases due to it, the complaints will never end.
As we all play for different reasons those who play WT for a ground only experience are in for disappointment; not enough to choose a more relevant game but just to spam forums.
If you play with the “I bested ye” mentality that comes with the idea every asset in game should be usable against all others (at their BRs) in perfect balance then disappointment and moaning on the forum (by being toxic against an average WT user because they dare play the mode Gaijin gave us) is never going to end.
the team that won the air battle???