Most players who cry about CAS do not carry CAP and CAS, but only SPAA. However, SPAA cannot OP and quickly process CAS. What can truly quickly process CAS is CAP, and the SP required for CAP is almost half less than that of CAS!
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Yeah. I ususally carry 1 CAS/multipurpose plane and 1 dedicated fighter in a lineup.
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My Chinese queue likes to carry one CAS and one CAP that can use rockets or bombs for ground support, as well as a helicopter. My CAP or HELI often shot down enemy CAS and CAP or HELI, and sometimes even my CAS would choose to discard the mount and prioritize dealing with enemy CAS. In most cases, they are really much more effective than SPAA.
The issue there is that fighters by themselves don’t have anything to do unless there is a somewhat constant stream of CAS aircraft being spawned. So very few players have a reason to bring out their fighters unless the enemy has something in the air.
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I’ve thought about this for years now but why not just allow CAP aircraft to first spawn RB GF, For it would be taking a page out of SB GF with its first spawn ruleset.
But for RB it might be difficult at lower BR’s unless your were to force aircraft to only carry Air Target belts which would nullify their effects on some armour (of course soft skins & open tops remain to suffer).
But at extreme higher BR’s 9.0+ probably allow fighters & interceptors to first spawn either with cannons armament limitations like mentioned eariler or give every nation a gunless interceptors only armed with missiles, Take example a MiG-21SPS-K, MiG-21S or the Étendard IVM/Super or a Mirage IIIC/IIIE/IIICJ/ 2000D-R1 & AJ37/AJS37 (without the cannon pods) But all of these loaded up with missiles.
I think CAP should come to GF as first spawns or at least be trialled for once like they did with those recent tests on the last dev sever with the mire advance missiles or the current event that’s testing a few things.
Plus it would probably aid with a reduction of all these poxy & daft CAS threads in this blasted forum.
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Currently you can bring out CAP very soon after match start.
Even with fighter first, in fact in some cases due to it, the complaints will never end.
As we all play for different reasons those who play WT for a ground only experience are in for disappointment; not enough to choose a more relevant game but just to spam forums.
If you play with the “I bested ye” mentality that comes with the idea every asset in game should be usable against all others (at their BRs) in perfect balance then disappointment and moaning on the forum (by being toxic against an average WT user because they dare play the mode Gaijin gave us) is never going to end.
the team that won the air battle???
SPAA wouldn’t magically disappear. There’s also no reason why you wouldn’t be able to take a second plane.
Exactly. It would ignite a push for a slight mode name change which its long overdue for.
The game can’t please everyone - it’s better for it to full-commit to the Combined Arms nature of it than to try and molly-coddle people over from WoT. It’s long overdue to stomp out the remaining few embers of the TO crowd by making SPAAG & SAMs far stronger (so that the people doing the complaining suddenly have no excuse not to use them), copying over Naval’s default plane idea (so “tank-only players” don’t even exist except by a given user’s own stubborn choice), and using Simulator’s SP system in RB (so early game CAS is hard-countered by both first spawn CAP and buffed SPAA/SAMs).
The game already has every. single. counter. mechanic. ready and waiting in other game
modes to be implemented to solve this loathsome headache once and for all, ad infinitum.
Then with such folk put in the place they actually deserve, real and substantiative discussion on how to mechanically improve CAS can occur. The fact that even a simple idea proposing to just delete the kill camera and force planes to runway spawn can’t be discussed about without “whur muh tenk only mode?” coming in uninvited to derail things is ridiculous.
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SPAAs are useless and the game is already decided. Spawn a second fighter just to get spawn camped…
This would kill this gamemode finally.
The To-crowd is far larger than the CAS supporters, as the main focus is on tanks in ground RB.
Every poll shows that. In the end Gajiin will nerf CAS hard its just a matter of time. Deal with it.
I think it’s even more important to copy over Sim’s entire SP system. 1000SP at start, no ability to earn more. Why?
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It doesn’t snowball in the favor of the team getting a few early kills.
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First-spawn CAP is possible.
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First-spawn CAS is possible with any loadout - due to #2 and RB having mouse aim to make shooting down planes easy, the advantage would firmly be in the hands of CAP provided each team spawns enough of it. People will quickly learn that burning all their SP on CAS early game is an easy way to guarantee a team loss.
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No moronic cap rushing anymore, thanks to no SP earnings.
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The nuke mechanic could be changed to use Arcade’s method of earning it (15 kills IIRC), if it’s that important to keep in RB at all.
It would then also force the issue with the fact that currently SPAAG vs CAS/CAP is very lopsided in favor of air unless the pilots are total idiots. What changes this dynamic needs:
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Copy over Naval’s default plane idea - then with first-spawn CAP & CAS ability, no player is lacking in their ability to counter it, provided they want to learn how.
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Give SPAAGs without radar lead markers from 0-1000m distance on stock crew, 0-1500m on aced crew. Planes fly very unrealistically in RB and since the reasons for that are too deeply imbedded to imagine them going anywhere, AA need an accuracy buff to compensate.
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Give heavy flak units (Flak88, VFW, 29-K, M109s, PLZ83, 2S1s, 2S3M, Type 75/99, Bkan 1C) a lead marker from 0-3000m when HE-VT/TF rounds are loaded in the barrel ONLY.
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Make HE-TF rounds act like HE-VT in RB for game balance purposes.
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Give the 40mm Bofors L/70 cannon its missing HE-VT shell. Since it was in service up until the round was developed for the gun, the M42 Dusters should also get this round, since frankly otherwise there’s no point using it over the M19.
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Bring back all full AP/HVAP/APDS belts removed by the now-redundant nerf long ago before we had overpressure or the hull break that predated that. SPAAG need to be able to defend themselves to reach positions useful to intercepting CAS. If they want to go Ersatz TD and be a worse IFV, let them.
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Remove tiny shell count limits on AP(FS)DS for higher tier SPAAGs.
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Remove all ability for SAMs to be detonated by incoming ordinance, save for IR ones vs flares. Helicopter rocket walling should not exist.
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Allow SAMs to be dumb-fired with proxy fuse toggle-able before launch. Then if a purely SAM vehicle runs into a tank, it can defend itself. If it wants to be a funny TD, it’s at best a much worse derp artillery piece.
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Add missing HVAP & APDS rounds for many SPAA guns so they can defend themselves vs tanks. 37mm Flak43, 37mm Flak44, 40mm Bofors L/60 (M42 Duster only), 40mm Bofors L/70, R3 T20 (same shell dimensions as Rh202), M163s, ZSU-37/2, ZSU-23/4, M53/59, Tunguska, etc etc.
Then, the counters work, and they’re all available to every user pretty much whenever they’re needed.
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Except it really isn’t, for many reasons listed in other topics.
The forums are a microscopic subsection of the general playerbase. The “polls” made on the topic are inherently biased towards one side or the other. Clearly most people are not motivated enough on the issue to even care. Then, there was a test event in 2019 which did not garner enough activity to get any subsequent repeats for five years and counting - surely we’d have seen more if there actually were that many TO supporters. So no, still more dumb nerfs are not inevitable, provided the mouths of the people doing the screaming are effectively taped shut, that is.
The “tape” in question is what I said earlier - making SPAAG much stronger, Naval’s default plane idea, and Sim’s SP system, all bundled together. Everyone has the counters available, nobody has an excuse not to at least try using them.
If someone chooses to gimp themselves, fine, but they then cannot go use the fact of gimping themselves to justify more nerfs.
In any multiplayer game, buffing a counter should be the first thing tried. Nerfing a weapon should be the absolute last resort, especially if the weapon is something used in many different modes when all the complaints only exist in one.
That is why I detest CAS nerfs so much - a nerf which may actually be justified in Combined Ground also gets blanket-applied to other modes it is anything but needed in. And I lay the blame for all those squarely at the feet of TO supporters, whose intense screaming provoked the overreaction panic-button-smashing reaction at snail HQ.
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Where can I find the test event? A lot of searching but I cant seem to find it. Just want to read the old forum that talks about it.
It was for then-top tier (8.3-9.7), only Arcade difficulty, on a variety of maps both urban and not. It didn’t get enough activity to even get a repeat test.
I forget where to find it - I personally did not play it as at the time I had nothing high enough in BR to bother. I still don’t venture up that high as I don’t enjoy the gameplay that high.
Of course it failed - they made it for the wrong mode. Knowing gaijin and their test events, it likely had very bad rewards too, like the last moving frontline ground mode in RB. That one failed too, not because players didn’t like it, but because it paid basically nothing.
I play from 7.0 to 8.3 so I just shred with the spitfire mk24 or the meteor reaper and show the America pilots how its done
They told the diehard supporters to put their money where their mouths were. And in the end the devs interpreted the lukewarm response as the TO folks being basically all hot air.
There is quite a bit of CAS hate in AB though, moreso for kamikaze bombing since planes have literally no penalty involved for dying.
I’m personally glad there hasn’t been any further tests since, as that would be a Pandora’s Box like no other for the game. It would set a dangerous precedent that if you pester the devs enough even after they repeatedly say no, they’ll then fold and keep adding more and more “mode without X,” whatever X happens to be.
The only split mode that’s actually needed is one for just Coastal Boats and no Bluewater Ships - the latter out-everythings the former in firepower, armor, and mobility. Not even CAS approaches that level of reducing tanks to pointless status.
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What CAS nerfs
There even is a topic to make AB tank only and have RB as the “combined”.
I believe people think AB players are not just as split because AB do not use the forums as much. Which is ironic when understanding GFRB is the least popular mode played (not including Naval, Sim, or PvE).