All US top tier vehicles are trending to a sub 30% win rate, what can be done

Machinery of War Discussion
55

Its really hard to come up with solutions when Gaijin has already shut them down for quite some time. TOW-2B top attack was too strong? Nerfed.

Hellfires not able to kill tanks reliably? Well, the documents says it uses HEAT and we all know how much of a wonderful job Warthunder does at modeling it.

SEPv2 being copy and paste despite all the documents on increasing its front armor? Gaijin says no, and gives a poor excuse about the overloaded suspension that the entire playerbase debunked in five minutes.

What solution can i possibly offer when Gaijin has already taken those and threw them in the garbage.

3 Likes
56

Setting the premium spam aside for the moment…

The Abrams are just bad. Artificially nerfed in many regards, reducing them to lacking parity, with each Abrams addiition becoming worse than the prior BR for BR. Not to forget that the other TT vehicles; HSTVL, ADATS and Stryker are also artificially nerfed in their own specifics. Top tier America is simply not great to play because of it and there’s only so much kneecapping and Russian Bias bullshit that can be tolerated before people either abandon the nation or the game entirely.

Gaijin has chosen to be an ignorant, petulant swine of a child regarding fixing the Abrams, HSTVL, ADATS and Stryker properly. Many people have made reports but Gaijin has ignored more than they’ve acknowleged and have yet to speak again. Thus, currently there’s no point to continue grinding the nation, let alone even playing it at high/top tier.

8 Likes
57

Do US mains know how to say anything besides “Russian Bias”?

You should direct your energy at the busted Leos/STRVs. Or play the top tier USSR MBTs and see for yourself how “busted” they are in the current meta. Or the CAS with no thermals (when half of battles are fog/overcast). At this point, USSR has Pantsir (but really the strela) and the KA52 as it’s highpoints.

US has the best CAS plane in the game, 7 11.0+ Abrams (all with 5 second reloads), 3 decent top tier helos and you sum it down to Russian bias? When they are hardly the best tech tree atm with the second lowest winrate? Why not focus on the consistent 1/2 death leaving on US teams? New players are the biggest weakpoint for top tier US.

2 Likes
58
  • US got the best CAS since 8.3 with the bullpup then just better till top tier then other nation → Still blame USSR for the Rocket they brings.

This is the reason, it happen since the old ages, they bring 1 MBT, 1 ADATS (wish they bring), then the whole Heli + Cas but still 1 death leave if they cant spawn CAS or leave right after their CAS death.

1 Like
59

100%.

The constant scapegoating of the USSR tech tree is annoying. If 1/3rd of the players on a US top tier team played a full line up rather than

Get 1 kill and a cap in the AIM- - > YAH-64, back to hanger

Things would be a lot different.

1 Like
60

Yet again, i love how everyone is super mad when two tanks get added…that somehow match BVM in effectivness.

2A7V doesnt bring anything new to the game. Its a slightly worse strv122 hull which was in game for three years, combined with 2A6 turret and gun that was in game also for three years. If you know how to penetrate old strv122s, you know how to penetrate 2A7V. If, for whatever reason, yo dont know how to penetrate old strv122 after three years, no amount of nerfs or buffs would help you.

2A7V is also ONLY german leopard 2 getting anything better than 1st gen gunner thermals. Many other nations at top tier have more tanks with similiar thermals. Again, nothing new.

Strv122B+ is just a strv122 with better thermals. It doesnt bring anything new in terms of armor or firepower.

Now comes the part where i talk about spall liner.

In the general, spall liner is useful, i wont deny that. Especially regarding side shots.

But it falls short when compared to relikt bags that BVM and many other russian tanks have access to.

Both relikt bags and spall liner serve the same purpose. They allow the tank to survive one shot in the place they cover and are destroyed afterwards. However the main difference is that relikt bags eat sabot without any penetration and internal armor isnt compromised. Spall liner just reduces the amount of spall but doesnt prevent the penetration, it doesnt stop the actual sabot which can still disable crew and modules.

Side shot to the 2A7/strv122b+ turret will still disable gun breech and can take out 2 crew members at the minimum. Side shot to the driver area will still take out the driver.

Not to mention spall liner is destroyable and unrepairable module and entire sections get destroyed by single shot.

Compare that to situation where you shoot side armor covered by relikt bags which…destroys single relikt bag and nothing else. BVM can continue to function at 100% capacity.

Not to mention that

  • 2A7 is wrongly modeled and has artifical weakspot in form of higher turret ring.
  • both 2A7V and strv122B+ still have the same weakspots
  • both can be disabled in one shot frontally if enemy hits the driver area as spall liner is absent there and even if it wasnt, sabot would still be able to take out the entire conga line of driver-gunner-commander

All and all, theres no need to nerf 2A7 nor strv122B+. Its just that two tanks reached BVM in survivability and people cant cope with that somehow, despite all of us having to deal with relikt bags since red skies.

People just need to git gud and stop suffering from skill issue and gaijin needs to fix abrams.

2 Likes
61

Literally the same words USSR mains used to defend their bvm in old days)
“git gud guys, bvm have same weakspots as t-80b”

They don’t reach bvm. They left the bvm far behind to swallow dust.

Nothing wrong there. It's not that filthy bvm after all. When MY tank does that, it's okay.

изображение
изображение1434×23 15.5 KB

USA have everything for good win-rates in terms of vehicles.They don’t need any more artificial buff like reload one. The 12.7 now separated from the 11.3 and if the USA will fail to show a better winrates, the problem clearly wasn’t the clickbait crowd.

2 Likes
62

Thats intentional. Its what ive been hearing since red skies whenever i talked about BVM. Im just enjoying the fact i can give them taste of their own medicine.

Ah yes. Combining the hull that was in the game for three years with turret and gun that was in the game for three years made the game unplayable. Funny that it is coming from someone who said BVM is epitome of game balance.

But allright. Lets not talk about that. Lets hear your suggestion as to how to fix the problem.

Abrams still has both wrong model with way too exposed turret ring, the UFP has half of its actual thickness and its engine is too loud when opposed to reality. Fixing those wouldnt be artificial buff, it would be making Abrams an actual abrams.

1 Like
63

Remove all spall liners from the game so side shots at 2a7 and strv122 become stable 1-shot like it was before. I would also increase the reload by 0.5.

64

Somewhat reasonable.

Then also remove or at least fix the relikt bags so they are not acting as better spall liner and you have my support.

Literally why.

1 Like
65

bvm always has huge shahid belt in its hull. You always can shoot it and get a 1-shot with very high chance even if there would be 0 spall. If 2a7 had similiar weakness than spall liners on it would be ± fine

Because as gaijin said many times “reload is a balancing factor”. In fact If the Abrams can reload 5s, then the Leopard should reload 5s too. But it don’t, because the reduction of reloading to abrams was only dictated by their poor stats and not by documents or something like that.

Leo is a top meta mbt now so i suggest a little nerf for their reload for balance.

66

Literally “just aim for weakspots” argument you berated me for just before. What a hypocrite.

2A7 has wrongly modeled turret ring, uts too much exposed. You can always pen there and there is no spall liner, resulting in one-shots. Not to mention the conga line behind drivers optics.

Well then i propose to nerf challengers 2 to like 30 minutes reload. Since they are super good. /s

1 Like
67

BVM share the same weakspot as all T-Series tanks, if 72B3 can survive DM33 then it’s just like DM53 fired from L44. Why other nation cant shoot it with the same way as 72B3 or 80U.

68

Show me a statistic where they dominate. Then I’ll support that. Right now the stats only show leopards dominance.

The problem is he randomness of that weakspot. Bvm can be almost guaranteed to be killed in the side. Leopard can’t. It’s a coin flip every time.

69

2A7 shares the same weakspot as 2A5 and 2A6. Why they cant shoot it same way they do with other two? ;)

Issue isnt BVM weakspots. Hell, i would even say that im okay with relikt.

What ia different are those BS relikt bags on the side that stop any sabot in the game and act as much better spall liner because they dont allow penetration in the first place.

Spall liner just decreases the amount of spall, it doesnt stop the sabot itself, which can still kill.

Ah yes ,the magic relikt bags that stop anything and ammo carrousel not detonating, truly a sign of tank that perform without any randomness.

1 Like
70

Take bvm, go with me to custom game and i’ll shoot your side and we’ll see how often you won’t die.

Spoiler

We will see something like that. I’ve already done this experiment with 2 people like you.

1 Like
71

“BVM doesnt have randomness when shot to the side”

Proceeds to link a video where 13 BVMs are shot in the side from the same distance, and 3 of them at random stop the sabot with their relikt bags

I kinda fail to see the issue, if anything this supports MY claim of randomness of relikt bags.

1 Like
72

Really dude, 2A7 and Strv 122 has better hull, since then rarely aim for the hull, 2A6 and previous version, still make 1-2 crew dead.
Not even talking about 2A7 when German only has 2A7 as a good Leo since the Swedish bias.

Just like exterior fuel tank of Leo 2 then.

1 Like
73

Yes exactly. They have better hull in a sense that 3BM60 cant just click on the UFP and banish them to Brazil. Its a feature that has been in game for 3 years already with the old strv122s. If people can find weakspots on old strv122s, they can find weakspots on 2A7, easy as that.

I have yet to see them do anything, and i play leo2s extensively.

74

70-80% ammo detonation + you can often kill 2 dudes in turrent + 45% fuel detonation ~ 90% one shot chance. For me it’s pretty stable.

And the leopard’s shells not detonating didn’t bother you at all, did it? Even though the blast door was breached.

1 Like