and since the start it was an issue, just not so much bc AF AA since then got buffed every so often
On this we agree. It’s stupid and counterproductive in entirety. We also agree that ARB needs adjustments.
Larger maps with more spread out objectives for higher tier aircraft? Absolutely.
Less players per team on small maps? Absolutely.
More objectives? Absolutely.
More airfields? Absolutely.
Exit zones for those who want to leave but can’t land due to being chased or damaged too much? Not against it.
Adjustment to ticket bleed and AI behavior and AI types? Sure.
Removing AF AA any further, however, isn’t one of them and shouldn’t even be on the table for discussion.
4 Likes
“destroy enemy fighters” on the loading screen includes AI controlled ones.
1 Like
Lost to an airfield camping mirage who would only fight while in range of the proxy-fuse SPAA.
But nooo, just PTFO and everything will be fine… despite the fact that I simply do not have the time, fuel and ammo to do so.
I’d say you’re dealing with nonsense…
This game is built on imbalance…
That is that there will never be a team where team play is preferred…
A balanced duel, for a team game, I imagine like this …
- 12 vs 12 ( or 16 vs 16 )
- eg these combinations of aircraft
- La-7 vs. FW 190
- F4U vs. A6M
- P-47D vs. Ki-43-II
- F8 Crusader vs. MiG 17
- F86 vs. MiG 15 etc.etc.
Unless these sets are in individual battles, there’s no arguing - it’s the other side’s fault that their team lost the game.
Gaijin supplied a huge amount of planes and they have to somehow install them in MM and BR…
So, from completely logical arguments, not all players in the battle will play exactly the same style…
This match type is suitable for DUEL type events, but not for any of the current game modes…
Some go for head-on combat, some are comfortable maneuvering in a small space, some like to play at heights, some have an airplane with which they have to sneak sideways like a scout, because otherwise they have no chance…
And everyone wants to re-arm/repair at a secure airport, nothing unrealistic about that… !
Of course, there will be a certain amount of players using AAA cover, but it’s up to the other team’s players to deal with it ( ground AI, rearm, or use the appropriate aircraft )
This game seems ideal for a fighter-bomber, or simply a multi-purpose aircraft … !
I imagine a fight where it would only be about the player’s pilot experience as follows:
- airstart height 7000 m
- box B-17/B24 or He 177 probably AI, live players will not enjoy it
- protection/attack - P-51D / FW-190D
- whoever played badly lost quickly, without the possibility of repair (returning to the airport, repair and climbing to the height is pointless…)
It’s good that this game offers many ways to play it…
This game isn’t a sword fight, where it’s about knocking out your opponent with a quick strike…
En garde!
How is it offloading consequences onto anyone else to be able to safely land and repair?
The other team isn’t facing any consequences for that? Unless of course you mean you have to dogfight and lose to me when I have fuel and ammo again… That’s understandable, but air combat is the point of the game.
It is not a players fault that the designers 60 years ago only gave the plane eg 120 rounds of ammo… War Thunder’s 16vs16 format does not represent reality, so there was no point for the historical plane to carry enough rounds to wipe out some whole airforces. These planes are put in situations for which they were not designed, that is not the players fault, or the designer’s fault, it is Gaijin’s fault. Wtf is your problem if you’re blaming the player for choosing to fly any particular plane?
Tell me, in Ukraine atm, can the Russian air force freely follow a Ukrainian fighter back to its base 300km behind the front lines? Does the Ukrainian jet not get a free-pass for rearming because theyr’e behind hundreds of km of integrated air defences? Sure, if you can suppress those air defences you can attack airfields, but that’s putting too much work in for War Thunder fighter players… They just feel entitled to a free kill against a defenceless opponent because they happen to have more fuel or ammo.
Honestly, waiting till a better player has to land only to kill them there is every bit as cowardly and scummy gameplay as people who exploit their airfield AA or who hide in space or who try to spawn-camp in ground battles.
I don’t want airfields to be exploited either, but there are much better ways of ensuring that, like having the points timer ticking away as long as you (and everyone left on your team) are near your airfield. Or perhaps having mediocre aa but more numerous airfields, dispersed further apart and not marked on the enemy map (why should the enemy be told where to fly for a free kill?).
There are so many ways to prevent people from exploiting airfield aa, while also giving people the chance to land and rearm… But apparently, it requires more than 2 brain cells to think up such solutions!
5 Likes
120 rounds of ammo is a plenty and its player’s fault to:
- fire it all and end up with nothing with enemy nearby
- choose a plane with low amount of ammo while not being good at aiming.
I haven’t played low ammo planes till I was confidwnt enough I can kill several people.with 60 rounds od 23mm. If I wasn’t, I would have played something that has way more. It’s that simple.
If you have failed in a dogfight, or lost all ammo, why it is the enemy that has to pay, and not you?
They have i invested their energy, their ammo, maybe even they have taken damage and now you can reset it all, just because you think you deserve it. You deserve to get clapped.
2 Likes
Again, the enemy doesn’t “pay” when you land to repair. I don’t know where the hell you get that idea from.
Landing and repairing takes what, 90s, I’m sure they can farm some AI targets to up their rewards in that time.
2 Likes
It’s pretty obvious at this point you are a v. bad player who doesn’t even understand the basics of the game.
I have already explained the costs of engagement.
You think that making bad decisions and bwing a bad player should just get you a free pass - run back to AF and reset at will. In my opinion - you should pay, not the guy who achieved an advantage over you.
And LOL at “rewards” of point and clicking at enemy ground targets. So you run to AF,and I simply give up every advantage I had by going to the deck and wasting my remaining ammo? Hilarious way to lose.
1 Like
i think that atleast reduce the range of the Bases AA from 4km to 2km or less.
i really agree with that, but like for 1.0-2.0 you start(as a bomber) at 3000, 2.3-3.0 4000 3.3-4.0 5000 and so on, until you reach the 7000
Yes you are right. On the basic tiers, bombers have the advantage of a relatively high airstart height … Then it evens out and more powerful fighters are able to reach the bombers, even if they take off from the airport …
This needs tweaking…
In the years 1939-40, bombers still dominated (Do-17, Ju-88, He-111, Wellington, etc.) and managed to outrun fighters, then they had to fly in a box, and finally only heavily armed B-17s could afford to fly in box in daylight and protected by fighters and still had heavy losses when the Luftwaffe pilots managed to time the attack well…
Well there we go. What they have finally implemented are forward airfields that have no flak, and rear ones that have. A good compromise which suits all, no? Land at a forward airstrip if you are badly damaged and risk getting attacked (there are plenty of lurkers who like their easy kills) or make it back to the rear airstrip to safety.
Mind you, I have seen plenty of people land at the forward airstrip just for convienience and get massacred. When will people learn?!
1 Like
It doesn’t take much, you just need to think…
The front airfield is good when the player looks around and thinks… Bomber, that’s a clear far airfield…
What advantage did a person earn who, for example, waited for the player to land after running out of fuel and ammo after mauling 5 enemies?
If you think that that person should be allowed to get an easy kill on that guy by strafing his airfield then you clearly haven’t ever been in that situation before.
I checked your stats and know that you prefer playing props over jets, which is understandable. However, AAA works differently in jets as they do in props. AAA in props are blatantly overpowered whereas AAA in jets are blatantly underpowered. Therefore, it looks like you’ve mostly seen the ‘camping airfield for AAA support’ side of things more so than AAA not doing a thing to help, allowing the process of waiting for jets to land to get an easy kill on them.
There is no counterplay to camping your friendly AAA in props, just like there is no counterplay to getting strafed, defenseless, on the airfield in jets. These are both bad game mechanics, that support scummy behavior.
1 Like
He earned a disadvantage.
When I do not engage, my team mostly loses. 1 guy camping around my airfield would substantialy increase my chances of winning, since enemy team would be outnumbered from the get go.
I really wish every XP-50 and Wyvern scrublord would go for AF camping instead of diving upon my poor Bf 109.
But you are righr - jet gameplay is.not of my concern
I generally consider jets broken beyond any repair and I don’t think there is a reasonable solution to this, other than mid-air repair/rearmanent maybe, because killer AAA with 6km of range and other similar ideas will not work.
2 Likes
Sure, he earned a disadvantage. I could understand that.
However, getting strafed and getting destroyed is a bigger ‘disadvantage’ than I’d think is reasonable.
An altitude or speed disadvantage would make more sense.
I don’t believe an advantage of 1 extra person on your team would affect the battle as much as it would if that Airfield camper gets a good amount of kills from those who are refueling, repairing, and / or rearming.
I’d like to add that I’ve played the Ariete (the 9.3 italian premium) in full downtiers, and it seems understandable that people would attempt to kill me when I have landed. This is because, if played well, the Ariete is extremely difficult to kill in jets that are 8.3.
For reference, I had dogfought an AJ37 and Harrier GR.1 at the same time, which both have pretty great missiles, fail to kill me because of how great the Ariete’s flight performance is.
This is why airfield strafing can be reasonable, but is still a bad game mechanic.
Again, I would have no counterplay to this, and they have no counterplay to my Ariete. This is a problem of balancing more so than AAA.
This goes the same for Supersonic jets, like the F-104, fighting subsonics.
1 Like
I’m getting 80% WR in some of my planes. 1 player disadvantage often causes a snowball effect locally which may translate to a lost game.
Of course average player will not tank his team’s chances THAT much, but he’ll surely make it easier for the enemy to win.
And I get it, it’s painful.to get strafed. But if you killed 5 guys, your team should be all over the guy at a BR where radars are a common thing.
Of.course short attention span low IQ Gaijin target demographic at jet BRs can and will fail to address the issue of enemy plane threatening their AF. But this is a team game and sometimes nothing can be done.
Current missile-slinging quick deathmatches are not really compatible with map and game design and I think Gaijin should reconsider the high BR Air RB, not just AFs.but also objectives, starting positions etc.
A system with in-air respawns in some distance from the combat zone could work. Who knows. Maybe a system where you exit a map and return repaired and rearmed at some distance. Etc.
1 Like
Good point with speed difference.
The balance is all over the place. I’m more than mildly infuriated, that there’s absolutely no downside of flying around the map, avoiding the enemies, if you have a ticket lead. And if you don’t - you can still waste everyone’s time. There’s no incentive to stick around the combat zone.
Even the fabled “red.square” showing you position of the last enemy with 10m or less left in a match doesn’t help since:
- it often works properly only when the map is zoomed in a bit or fully zoomed out (so it jumps all.over the place) - gaijin keeps failing to fix this ever since the introduction of the feature several years ago and when I point this outnto the community, they don’t give a damn
- some maps are way bigger than what the map shows, and if the enemy goes beyond the assumed play area, the red square and his red dot (if you decide to waste an order) are not visible, unless you get to the visible map border, only then it zooms out, the problem is - if you choose the wrong direction, you’re now a few dozen kilometers from the enemy, and often - way more than that. Gj covering that in a prop :D,
3 Likes