If anything it’s the other way round because fullreal exceeds the instructor aoa limitations. This is just a skill issue, sorry.
Again and again we tell you why that isn’t a solution. Burning ammo and positioning to cater towards a camper isn’t a solution like you seem to think. Not to mention that a lot of aircraft aren’t capable of that in any significant measure (think piddly 7mms trying to out-compete a camping attacker that can pop tanks and pillboxes, like the do335).
Why don’t campers do this too? Problem solved.
Funnily enough, people can play other classes without camping the AF.
Wow - all so so wrong! Just because you all say it doesn’t make you right. And I don’t HAVE to agree with you about airfield flak. This isn’t Communism.
And the oh-so elite precussion - Bet you use the mouse in RB. I’m all flattered by your interest in me and in the time you take to try to attack me , yet you won’t shut me up no matter how much you try. I know what I see, have seen and will see. Plenty of others have seen this too. Many are not here now because they have been pushed away by your acidic comments. If a joystick/pad is such a great advantage in RB then why aren’t you all using one there? Black isn’t white, day isn’t night.
EVERYONE KNOWS THIS except you gas lighters. And it has always been so. Using a mouse has turned you all into kill-crazy fighter flying berserkers! And remember - I’ve been there.
Anyone been here long enough to remember when mouse aim was given a little recoil? The complaints were such that Gaijin had to revert to none the very next day! Such realism.
Now back on topic: Gaijin are unlikely to change airfield flak no matter how many of you think it’s a good idea for the reasons I, and others, have stated. I will say it again, it became a non-game when the af flak was dumbed down. It was an absolutely terrible experience for many, namely us, beginners, bombers and badly shot up players coming into land etc. but perhaps we all have skill issues (is that all you can think of?).
Yay! “Skill issues” mentioned by a mouse aimer - I like it! So what’s new?
being afk and just letting the aircraft fly itself for whatever reason (try being away from a joystick and you will hit the ground at some point)
whereas circling the af (when you are winning) forces the enemy to make a choice.
If you saw me circling the airfield when I had a big ticket deficit it may have been a period where I had tried to land to j out and got pounced on my some bloodthirsty grunt who wanted to kill me. I don’t like to waste anyones time, including mine and will usually ask them to vacate and i will land and J out. Some allow this, some ignore it. There is no point in wasting time if you can’t win - it just doesn’t make sense (I’ve got better things to do, like work, see family or even start another game of WT where my team might just be able to win).
And yes, I am a boomer actually. I was brought up on a joystick. It’s simply ridiculous to say there are no issues with the disparate control methods. Apart from for you of course, someone so determined to prove an apparent fellow joysticker so wrong. And yet plenty have seen this. I guess you must be superman.
I wonder how you’d fare against an elite mouse aimer with your joystick. I don’t think you’d last very long. The mouse has so many advantages. But then you are superman, aren’t you.
By the way, no one said anything about SB, this is an RB thread, so no matter how “superior” you are to me in that mode it’s irrelevant. Well done to you though. However, I prefer this mode. I’m flattered that you cared so much to debunk me. Me, I just can’t be bothered. However, take the plaudits from your comrades here. You seem to have earned them. Well done to you.
Who’'s talking about full real in RB? That would be madness now. I suppose caps going to say he uses full real in RB. If he does he must truly be a genius among us paupers and I bow to his superiority.
The stated turn stats may be correct for the mouse + KB but they are certainly not for anything other. I can only assume that if cap is so good, he flies a single type of aircraft most of the time (probably a yank fighter) and has zeroed his stick in for that particular aircraft. To do that for very aircraft would take hours. Took me 2 hours just to get the Hurricane series to fly the way I wanted them to (skill issue perhaps, mouse aimers?).
Plenty of aircraft I wouldn’t even touch. Many of us hate the I16 because it’s unflyable. Perhaps if you can get it to fly without undulating you could post me your settings cap. For mouse aimers however - an absolute killer (apparently superior in every way to the Me109E - which it wasn’t).
They are expensive, and require more set up; most people are casual and not that competitive
Not actively engaging in combat is a third one :)
No, no it does not, it just forces them to bleed tickets till you lose, this
A: gives them less score/RP than if they fought you
B: Makes you definitely lose, therefore you lose rewards
3: If you had come and fought you could have won; gained higher rewards.
So you J out as soon as the going gets tough, well done nobody likes you
If you won’t fight, just don’t play. Simple as that.
Nobody cares.
Ok and?
The only issue is that joystick users have the advantage in ARB
If you can fly joystick yeah, yeah you would.
So you can deal with mouse aim.
It’s a well known fact that in competitions and tournaments 90% of players use full real
That’s honestly skill issue. The Hurricane is amazing, even with full real it’s easy to fly
Hear me out here: Learn how to fly it :O
Literally nobody claims this. Me 109 E is better in every way except turn speed.
Ha ha cant win can I?
You’re all brainwashed to fly with the mouse. Just don’ try to claim the joystick makes things easy because it doesn’t.
Don’t have a joystick? Try a joypad. Most have got one of those. Isn’t it funny that the kids of today think nothing of going out and getting new games for over £30, but when but when it gets down to even buying a cheapish joystick its “can’t do that sunny, too expensive”. There are half decent joysticks out there that are cheap that will enhance your gaming experience. You are being selective in your arguments here of course. This is a game about - well, flying actually. You don’t use a mouse to fly real aircraft.
Passive behaviour? Nope. You have to turn around your airfield (and sometimes wait for the right time to strike out). That’s not being passive.
Sorry, fighting 3 or 4 mouse aimers in fighters doesn’t sound like much fun to me. Now if they’d let me land with no chance of winning then I most always do - if I trust them. Only fools try to take on more than 2 enemy fighters, joystick or not.
“So you J out as soon as the going gets tough, well done nobody likes you”
Again, a selective viewpoint - what do you want me to do if I am on my own and am going to lose? Ah, I take it you want me to CIRCLE THE AIRFIELD (which is basically what this whole thread is about)?
Love it how one of you said I must be crap because I had a poor k/d ratio on the zero. I fly what works best for me and that isn’t really many fighters. Look at the K109 stats. An unpopular aircraft for many, yet I’ve managed to use it quite well thank you very much. Perhaps the Zero doesn’t fly as well for me as it does for you (proves my point again). Selective data to “prove your point”.
“laughs at the advantage part”
Perhaps no one “claims” the I16 is superior but in RB it has its terrible spin characteristics taken away from it. It’s an absolute killer for you guys and performs better, in fact than the 109E as a result.
Someone else who is talking absolute rubbish. Sorry for pointing that out to you. Now you’re all dragging this thread way off topic.
BTW, Can someone post a screenshot or video showing that realistic or full real control can pull better AoA than KB & mouse control on a Bf 109F-4/G-2 or Yak-3?
I can’t do that because my WTRTI settings are broken for somehow :(
Likewise, because this is a discussion thread, not 1984. Why on earth are you bringing up communism?
Uses mouse in the gamemode marketed towards gamers using a mouse, what a surprise! Using a HOTAS or gamepad doesn’t mean you get special treatment.
This is the second time I have ever talked to you AFAIK lmao
Source for the first bit? I regularly switch to mouse joystick controls, especially at jet tier. It has a good few advantages, even if you don’t have a head tracking or VR setup. I just don’t like to have a HOTAS on my desk as well, especially since mine is pretty cheap and isn’t secured down.
You’re calling us gaslighters? Seriously? Stop trying to make everyone else out to be the villain for playing the game as it’s intended.
It’s air realistic, not air sim. Compromises are made for the sake of playability, even if Gaijin’s neglected that for a bit.
It was a bad experience for you because you expected to be able to go back to your airfield without competition, without securing the airspace, and without timing your RTB to a more optimal time in the match. I agree that it sucks for bombers, but bombers kinda suck anyway and need a DM buff + an overhaul in Air RB so that multiple sorties doesn’t involve slow circling to land, and flying on the deck from the second sortie onwards.
Bombers aren’t an issue that can be solved by airfield AA in the slightest, because they’re fundamentally broken in Air RB. Make them too strong and they climb to orbit, laser anyone getting too close, and win on tickets. Make them too weak and you have the mess that they are right now. Hell, part of the problem IMO is that the match timer is too short to be able to intercept them if they were able to spawn higher so that they don’t immediately get blitzed by fighters.
Because everyone knows that only joystick users can have skill /s
Circling the airfield under the cover of insanely powerful AA and not participating in the fight is most certainly passive. The majority of players will agree, because you’re not really doing anything. It’s like how people used to repetitively J out on the runway, exploiting a busted game mechanic to escape consequences.
What choice does it force the enemy to make? Brave the airfield AA and get killed before they get into gun range? Get 4 other teammates nearby all ready to dive on you at once, and hope that someone survives to kill you in one pass before the AA sets them on fire, gives them a leak, or outright kills them? I’d like to refer you to this short video showing what’s necessary to kill someone camping.
And that’s assuming they don’t just dodge properly.
Should’ve picked a more optimal time to RTB then. Should’ve concealed yourself better so that you could sneak back to your airfield, maybe even the rearmost one, without being spotted. Should’ve worked with your team to provide you cover. There’s a lot of things you could have done to give yourself better odds, and instead you decide to abuse AI AA.
If they work hard for a kill, why are they obligated to give away the RP and SL rewards so that you can dodge a cheap repair cost? Repairs aren’t expensive anymore, so all this tells me is that you care too much about your kd.
Play the game? Who cares if you won’t win, get a cool dogfight or two in before you get slammed out of the sky. Sometimes the stars align and you can pull a win out of a situation that looked impossible. Play for fun, not for stats.
Then go see your family instead of playing War Thunder. J out in the air so you can move onto that match even quicker, and the other guy at least gets the rewards for getting offensive on you to the point where you didn’t think you could win the fight. Again, play for fun, not for stats. If you’re gonna lose that match regardless, at least squeeze some more rewards and dopamine out of it.
Go play sim then, if you want a joystick environment.
Have you ever took part in a tournament? Joystick is widely known for offering a competitive advantage in duels.
Doesn’t sound like it with how many complaints you have about people playing the game how it’s intended to be played.
I use fullreal in Air RB sometimes. Realistic joystick controls also exceed instructor aoa limitations, but automatically sets trim, but either one works well if you’re mashing into joystick controls for better dogfighting performance.
Because we all know that sim players only fly exactly one type. Because the sim community doesn’t share configs, nor are people allowed to get something good-enough for them. Because we all know people can’t learn the strengths and weaknesses of multiple aircraft so that they know roughly what to do in a dogfight flying it.
Then use simplified joystick controls in Air RB? This isn’t SB where you’re forced to use fullreal.
God this response is long. Can we please focus on the topic rather than how you use a joystick and feel that it entitles you to be able to use airfield AA to give free cover and landings?
The airfield is a 3km killzone. You can land anytime, you just choose not to because fighting without every possible advantage is hard. It’s much easier when the game is played for you and opponents are shot down without you even having to face them.
Not sure about elite mouse aimer, but as a part of a lost bet I’ve shot down a bunch of my decently competent friends while in Sim controls. Being able to pull more AoA than they ever could makes it a fairer fight than one would think, from there you just have to feel the plane.
And I did that without needing an airfield to camp, unlike yourself.
I don’t have a screenshot right now, but I can confirm that most 109s are limited to 12deg AoA - a few like the Es and K4 are limited to 13deg AoA instead. In Realistic/Full Real, you can just about manage 17deg AoA before wing stalling.
Funny Cap. Oh how I laughed. Yes, I’m so incompetent that I just shoot down bots don’t I? It’s actually harder to shoot down bots with that thing. And yes, I’ve taken a good few fighters out with it with well timed attacks. Why do you think it has just been downtiered? It’s a difficult machine to use, especially if you don’t know what targets to go for. Few use it.
I fly what aircraft suit me (I don’t believe you get on with ALL the aircraft in the game, do you?). The selective picking of the zero ties to point out my inadequacies (which in a way proves my point, flies ok for me but better under the mouse, even for an inexperienced mouse user, simply because all the flying is done for them by the instructor turning with the KB will give you maximum deflection whilst not allowing you to stall - who could ask for more?). Alternatively, to make me look a little better, have a look at my ki61 or ki44 stats instead, he could have chose them but chose not to because he wanted to make me look BAD! I suppose you will say anyone can do good with those aircraft. Well, yes. Kind of proves my point about the lazer aim the mouse has more than anything really, doesn’t it. Oh I’m sure the mouse aimers will crop up here and say my k/d ratio of 216/31 in the Ki61 is pathetic compared to theirs but then you are using the easier control method, aren’t you?!
It’s interesting that as such an ace you would want to grace us with your presence here, or even in SB. If I want to play a proper simulation I’ll go to IL2 or something like that. The best that WT can offer is a semi-sim environment. And I suppose you do, having the setup you do (it would be wasteful not to really).
I will concede one thing though, joystick control is better than joypad control (mostly due to the short throw of the sticks on the pad) that’s for sure. Turn rate, as you should know though, is only part of the story When it comes to mouse aimers fighting joystickers fighting joypadders. Now if only the poor console sods were told this before they started playing - a lot have had to go out and buy additional hardware just to be competitive (apparently something many mouse aimers do not want to do because it’s “too expensive”). Ask them how they feel about things, or don’t they matter? They should because console players now make up a pretty big percentage of the player base.
Anyway, yada yada yada. We aren’t going to agree, so I’ll just say this - making it as simple as I can for ya all:
Gaijin WILL NOT nerf airfield AA in general because it would RUIN the rest of the gameplay in ARB, as bad as most you think base camping is. We seem to see the effect of this every time there is a major update. If you gen z types get what you want then i think you will rapidly see an exodus from this mode (especially from bomber/strike aircraft fliers, but probably not from bloodthirsty fighter users). It’s an absolute shower whenever airfield AA has been dumbed down to be as ineffective as the AAA out in the battlezone, and plenty didn’t like it.
I think they’ve been there and tested it (inadvertently or not) and thought NOOO!!! Strike aircraft (and most certainly Bombers) have enough of a bad time of it as it is. If you don’t fly anything but fighters then you most certainly don’t care about that of course, but some of us do. And they have been put in the game whether or not they should be there or some don’t like it.
Anyway, you don’t like airfield flak? Then you are catered for with maps like the one in Israel; the airfield flak there is pathetic and allows you the field day you so desire in your fighters. Gaijin HAVE varied things to try to cater for everyone as you can see, and yet you are STILL not happy!
Anyway, there are more pressing things that need to be addressed in WT.
And yet your 1.5kb and 60% winrate is really nothing to write home about in the best Ki-61. It’s painfully obvious that that kd is because of airfield camping and caring far too much about having a high kd.
It would ruin it for you because you wouldn’t be able to rely on an absurdly OP AI game mechanic to cover for your mistakes* FTFY. Wouldn’t ruin it for everyone else, who can get on with playing the game without silly AI crutches ruining things.
Because this game had no players prior to the original airfield AA buff that brought it back to what it’s like now, I think in 2016 or 2017?
You act as if 80% of the gameplay happens in the immediate vicinity of airfields. Which, to be fair, might be the case for you, but certainly isn’t for the majority of players and those who don’t camp the base endlessly.
Airfield AA does not fix the problems with Strike aircraft and Bombers in Air RB. The gamemode needs fundamental changes to accommodate them. Airfield AA doesn’t address how bombers get bodied on the way to bombing points, how bombers are stuck on the deck after their first sortie if they try to get another in, how attackers have to fly directly under climbing fighters after a minute or two of uncontested attacking the ground targets in the centre of the map, and so on.
Bugs != varying things to cater for everyone. I can’t remember the last time I played a match where the airfield didn’t have sufficient AA to knock out anything trying to get remotely close.
Airfield AA gets abused every. Single. Match. It is a pressing issue. It actively drives away a lot of players out of frustration, including players who’d otherwise spend a good amount of money on the game. It’s unfair to everyone who doesn’t abuse it, puts a standstill to the pace of the match, and is extremely obnoxious and unfair to try and counter.
That is a pressing issue, regardless of your own personal feelings.
Hey guys, i dont want to read all 459 posts here so i ask directly:
Will Gaijin do something against the problem that some Airfield AA never shooting at the enemys? I mean, i am out of ammo, return to the airfield to reload and the enemy on my 6 kill me easely and the AA do no one shoot at him. This happens to me in 4 of 5 battles… i prefer low and mid BR games and it sucks because the enemy AA works everytime 100%!
I mean, i dont try to hide on the airfield, but how should i rearm or even survive in a prop plane in fight with early F-84 jets without ammo?
109 K4, you can see the change in turn time and AoA when Realistic controls are used. Turn time is significantly reduced and if I had added it to the metrics, turn radius would be reduced as well. It’s more effective in other 109s since they’re lighter, the K-4 is pretty fat and the gunpods don’t help.
Bots fly in a straight line. About as easy of a target as can be. Still, with 600 games and 762 air targets destroyed, I seriously doubt you’re shooting player controlled planes, especially considering your ~1300 ground target kills… which I’m also sure weren’t player-controlled tanks.
I don’t fly them for 500, 600, or a 1000 battles.
You have nearly 600 games in the A6M2 vs only 142 in the Ki-61-1 and 113 in the Ki-44-2. Still, you’re not even destroying two air targets per match in either of them, and you even use them for ground pounding…?
The J2M2 is another great example, it’s a pretty damn good plane but for this one you’re not even managing a single kill per game.
It is a ‘free’ advantage that simply improves your plane’s capabilities while not compromising on any other stat. A plane with longer wings would have better turn rate at the cost of straight line speed.
A mouse and keyboard are cheap, consoles support them. AB and RB are made for mouse and keyboard controls.
There was a bug a couple months back that did it. It was a lovely time since nobody could park themselves on the death bubble of airfield AA to reset a fight they had made mistakes in. Got a lot of good air combat out of those short days.
Last time I flew either I had more air kills (PLAYER air kills at that) than 3/4 of my team combined. If you’re smart and position yourself correctly, even a Bf 110 C will get good results. I did that in a G8N.
I have basically stopped playing the game in large part due to this. I came back after a while of not playing in order to unlock the 500 KG bomb added to the 109 K-4. First match I played I outplayed a P-47D-28 and he ran straight to the AF and camped, like clockwork.
At this point Air RB, which was already the only mode worth playing for me, is only made for stat padders, SL farmers and low-value worthless players in general.
I will re-state my position from this thread on the old forum. I am most in favor of completely removing airfield AAA, with no other changes. This is not because I think it is a perfect solution, but because it would achieve my desired result while being the quickest, lowest effort solution, and thus most likely to be implemented by Gaijin. It would also be the hardest imo for them to find some way to implement catastrophically poorly and then ignore for 5 years.
I think Metra’s proposed solution is a good idea, more even-handed than mine and I would support that being implemented. Just hope they get it right.
EDIT: Disappointed to see that the “But what about poor bombers and strike aircrafts???” argument has risen from the dead with the forum transition.
