Although i agree with most of your post - the majority deals with particular and very specific aspects of your playstyle - and leads imho away from the opening post.
So there was a proposal / suggestion for a change - actually 5 people liked this (including myself, first verbally and now officially - despite i dismiss some wording).
What is the status? Will there be an additional poll to get at least a statistical significant number of participants and their view on things? Was there a contact with devs? If yes - what’s their pov? If no, why not? Requests ignored?
It would be great to get an update regarding progress in this issue as otherwise this thread is just repeating already addressed statements. Just look at the Ground RB guys and their infinite discussion loop regarding a TO (Tank only) mode.
No, your position up in the air is only there for air superiority. One plane might stay up to keep reloaders down, but the rest of the team should go objectives, either offensive or defensive. Taking out the AI ground units and planes gives victory in most matches.
I must say AA on higher BR-s is not useful as missiles are slow and you can easily evade them. You can easily strafe or be strafed and in most cases AA is ineffective.
that oftentimes you simply can’t ground pound due to type of targets and your own plane’s rmanent
that automatic ticket bleed will often hit your team way stronger than the enemy team
that often you can’t hope to avoid losing via tickets because on some maps 1 attacker may create advantage that requires 5-6 fighters working hard for 10 minutes to nullify
that killing ground targets is braindead easy and boring as hell
often it’s 1-3 v 1 at the end and 2 planes ground pounding is usually not enough
often it’s 2-3 guys hiding from me, I can’t hope to ground pound with 2-3 guys attacking me, so the right thing to do is to…
…lure them into AF AAA and kill them. And it’s as easy as it sounds. But that’s exactly the kind of gameplay AF AAA apologists want to see every match.
This is not my playstyle. This is simply “proper fighter playstyle” and for whatever reason other succesful fighter users have the same issue.
This topic is generally: people who want skilled, engaging gameplay vs people who want to farm/are so bad they can’t get results without AF camping.
There is no reasonable compromise. If someone wants engaging ground attack fun, there’s already a CAS-dominated mode called ground RB, where Ground stands for CAS. If someone wants bomber gameplay, he can just set his alarm and press space with their computer turned off - it won’t be much different anyway and why waste precious electricity?
So the issue has multiple dimensions and depending on your preferred BR range you might have different experiences and your are either highly affected or not…
If you had the chance to follow this thread also in the old forum you might see various types of demands:
Complete removal of af aaa
Removal of aaa if weaker plane classes get a chance to exit
Leave af aaa as it is
Eliminate useless af aaa on some prop maps
Replace useless af aaa with functional af aaa
Increase effectiveness of af aaa in jet BRs to the level of prop BRs
For removal of af aaa the main arguments are:
Forcing players to Increase teamplay
Forcing players to learn in general
Forcing players to make the right decisions (Fuel, plane, ammo)
Avoiding af aaa camping (props) can’t be countered
Avoiding of combat resets if outplayed
Avoiding of 25 minute matches due to
Air RB is a PvP mode
Af aaa allows low skill players to survive
For keep it as it is / strengthen jet af aaa the main points are:
Lack of af aaa gives non-fighter planes no real chance to survive
Af aaa iss needed to cover repairs, refuelling, rearming
There is no teamplay in randomly allocated teams
Air RB is not designed as a TDM mode
Air RB is PvP with PvE goals and objectives
Af aaa ensures that non-fighter planes have a purpose
Removal would transform Air RB as a whole into a pure TDM mode
Removal of af aaa just allows low skill strafing runs and cheap kills
So what ever your position in this topic is, you might have even different views on things - depending if you are playing props and/or jets , so as a pure fighter player you might have different povs than people which play all BRs and plane classes or just non-fighter planes.
The elephant in the room is:.
How many people demand changes (removal/improvements) with what kind of proposals/suggestions in which segment (props or jets) and are they statistically relevant (confidence level) or not and…
Gaijins’ opinion about that. Even with reading the forum for 5 years is can’t remember any official response or feedback. The only recent feedback is indirect, after several incidents of non-working af aaa in 2 or 3 updates they “fixed” af aaa quite fast and the last 2 updates showed no similar incidents…
Regarding “attackers not being useful without AF AAA” - overwhelming majority of attackers dive to the middle and die. Only absolutely busted planes like Wyvern can complete several runs. Attackers often can end match before any PvP combat can really take place (example: that desert map, Tunisia?). So it’s not like AF AAA is “crucial” also withiut fighter cover attackers are toast anyway after they refuel. All they can do is… camp the AF.
I think nobody is really bothered about jet BRs, jet gameplay is IMO busted in general. But AAA is a true problem mostly for props and early jets.
With props less then with jets, but still in it’s core the ARB games usually are playing out as team death match.
The only players having an issue with the AF AA are fighter bois who want to play team death match instead of focusing on the objective. IRL fighters would only get near an enemy AF it they would know the AA was dismantled. Otherwise only attackers and bombers would get near for attacking an AF. That is because military bases in general are defended so that is not a place where a battle is fought out because the attacker would not like to be near the enemy base for it giving the enemy a very clear advantage.
Removing AF AA would hurt attackers and bombers much more then fighters because fighters can bring ammo for large part of the game. Bombers and attacker’s though are fighting their perfect mission and therefor have to RTB and reload, exactly because they are doing the job as intended.
In ARB we need more players focussing on the objectives because it would make the game play out in much more immersive stories and battles fought out. Defending the mission winning bombers reaching the enemy AF is in the end more rewarding then the same dogfights happening over and over again in the middle of the map. In large groups dogfights also usually end up by somebody third partying and taking the kill. For the coolest dogfights I would prefer a duel game mode for 2vs2 or 3vs3 and the rest of the modes stay at their war/battle oriented gameplay.
Only fighter air superiority and teamplay garant non-fighter planes to survive with AAA or without AAA. No AAA does not change this.
Af aaa is not needed for that, fighter cover can do it even better.
This is nonsense, all multiplayer games have random teams and in everyone teamplay matters.
And in my experience the more the teamplay matters the most fun players get out of the game…
Two teams face and in 90% of the matches the one that eliminates the other team wins.
How is that not a TDM?
The other 10% is just an alternative not how the gamemode is designed.
Agree, this has nothing to do with AAA tho
What does an attacker or a bomber in the airfield against a fighter waiting outside AAA protection?
Nothing
Af aaa doesnt ensure that.
Same as two points ago, ARB already is a pure TDM mode. No AAA does not change this.
No AAA only makes teamplay matter more.
Strafing runs are easily countered. An enemy will only be able to strafe once, after that you will be above him and it will be an easy kill.
So they arent cheap kills, in fact they are expensive kills because it costs your death.
On the other hand af AAA alllows low skill gameplay where you run to AAA protection when you are in danger. And there is no counter to it.
Dude - i summarized all positions, there was simply no need for commenting on them, the deeper meaning of a summary is exactly to avoid endless repetition loops…
As this proposal came from you - what’s the state of this?
The first objective is to kill the enemy player. So ‘‘fighter bois’’ are the most objective focused.
‘‘PvE’’ players are usually players that just want to grind and do not care about expending a lot of time in the game to learn how to fight enemy players.
Tell me how does a bomber in the airfield fight back a fighter waiting him outside airfield protection?
How is the bomber playing ‘‘the perfect match’’ if he cant do anything to win?
No AAA does not change this.
The gameplay you are looking for exists Simulator with EC matches.
Air Realistic Battles with 25 minutes time limit and maps 1000 times smaller than your ‘‘stories’’ is no fit for your dreams.
You are also showing that you are inexperienced in fighter gameplay because you dont understand how a PvP ARB match plays.
PvP ARB is not about dogfights, is about energy management, strategy and teamplay. Dogfights only play a small part in PvP ARB and this is the beauty of the gamemode.
AAA just ruins all that and that is why almost every experienced player hates AAA, specially on prop maps where we have secondary airfield with strong AAA protection that cover half the map and destroy the whole gameplay.
If you had PvP experience and also played 2vs2 tournaments like me you would see that the gameplay has nothing similar and that 2vs2 is a lot more boring in fact…
Going slow, I had no time. I might finish it now in vacations and make the suggestion.
I just need to add ground targets and maybe export it to other maps/sizes.
But from my pov the more interesting questions are these:
I mean it would be really nice to see what the community as a whole thinks about this whole issue. It makes actually no sense to continue with your efforts if it is unclear how many people are affected, see the need for a change (or not) and how they feel in general.
At least the total number of poll participants would give either an indicator if we talk about a 1st World problem of a few or an existential issue for all. I mean 5 likes is a start, but even if gaijin would take a look at your suggestion, it is always a matter of statistical importance (confidence interval) if a poll is able to represent or validate an opinion or not.
And about that, no. I did not send my map configuration to the devs, in part because it is not ready and in part because Im just a tech mod, this part is not my work. In this aspect Im just a regular player giving my ideas and opinions.
mhm- i was aware of this. I asked this independent from your upcoming suggestion.
As you created this thread it would be easy for you to add a poll to the first post - covering all aspects of this very complex topic and it would be easy to check the pulse of the community.
A poll could look like:
A) Do you have issues with Airfield AntiAircraftArtillery (af aaa) in Air RB?:
a) yes
b) no
If no - the direct to point E)
If yes - detailed feedback required.
B) Where are your issues located:
a) Prop BRs
b) Jet BRs
c) in both BR ranges
C) What are your issues with prop BR af aaa (multiple answers)?
a) af aaa is too strong
b) af aaa is too weak
c) af aaa is not consistent on all maps
d) prop BR af aaa is fine, i have just issues with jet BR af aaa
D) What are your issues with af aaa in jet BRs (multiple answer) ?
a) af aaa is too strong
b) af aaa is too weak
c) af aaa is not consistent on all maps
d) jet BR af aaa is fine, i have just issues with prop BR af aaa
E) Game play: af aaa is
a) helpful and supports my game play
c) not helpful and not supporting my gameplay
c) not affecting my game play
F) Necessity of af aaa:
a) Essential
b) Has to be removed
c) I don’t care
G) Your play in Air RB
a) mostly fighter aircraft
b) mostly strike aircraft
c) mostly bomber aircraft
H) I fly in Air RB mainly
a) in order to grind the Tech Tree (TT)
b) in order to earn SLs
c) in order to have fun as i like being a pilot
I) I see and use Air RB mainly as
a) a Team Death Match mode
b) a PvP mode (player vs player)
c) a PvE mode (plaver vs environment)
d) a combined PvP/PvE mode
So - this poll would give this whole tread a structure, is neutral regarding the wording and would help to clarify what we are talking about. A problem of a few or for a significant number of players.
Without structuring this whole topic will end like the old one - 6 years and 2.035 replies:
I sure agree we need longer match time. Then the whole issue would mostly disappear because one team fulfils enough of the objectives to drain enemy tickets.
Fighter bois might focus on the first objective/air supremacy, but the first objective does not win you any war, it provides attackers/bombers or the boots on the ground to fulfil the real tactical objectives.
I know about the different styles of air tactics. I spoke about the clusterfuck that the dogfighting on the deck usually is because that is the least tactical part. People energy fighting still do something remotely focussed on winning a battle vs. diving to the first enemy spotted.
Map size I think is kind of adequate, with larger maps going back to base and go for another run takes a lot of time. While reality in WOII was a constant going back to base, fixing up the plane as fast as possible and up in the air again, certainly when a side was on the brink of loosing like the Brits in the Battle of Britain.