Air Simulator Battle Rewards

Game Discussion Simulator Battle
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You shouldn’t be in this conversation if “the silver lions don’t interest me at all”. This post is about the rewards in sim. You must not have understood what I was saying with the comment you replied to, which wouldn’t be the first time you go on a rant about one of my posts. I don’t have the energy to correct you on it a second time.

You obviously know nothing about the significance of the SL currency. SL isn’t a Gaijin plot for you to spend more money on the game. It is there to bring consequences into the game as otherwise there would be none for dying. Stop referring to Warthunder as a flight simulator above all else. Sim is an aspect of the game, but not the primary aspect. Arcade/Realistic battles are the primary modes in this game and having a currency like SL is required. It ties in with those pesky consequences, helps with balancing, and helps create the progression cycle.

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what nonsense. IL-2 doesn’t need SL, DCS doesn’t need SL, Hell let Loose doesn’t need SL, Arma doesn’t need SL… these and many other games work wonderfully without SL.

Sim is Sim and not RB/AB. and Sim would be 100 times better without SL.
why? because tactics and teamwork would take center stage even more and not who earns how much SL.

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that is not necessary

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I’ve not played any of those but its worth remembering

  1. War Thunder has dramatically more vehicles/assets than probably all of them combined.
  2. war thunder is a free to play game. There are inherrent elements found within all F2P games. Both the good ones and the not so good ones.

SLs are a tool for progression. In something like the DCS, you just buy the aircraft you want to fly (I think) In war thunder you have to work for it.

One of the best Free-to-play games i’ve ever played is Warframe. It has credits that perform the same role as SLs in war thunder and whilst they are easier to get being a mostly PvE game and not PvP. There are times where I have to go off farming for them.

It just happens.

I do agree SL economy sucks at the moment and good reason for that was as a response to Botters/exploiters within the gamemode. But if SB was removed from the economy entirely. If it was purely for gameplay and not anything else. No one would play it. Simple. In a game built around the progression system. It would suck to play SB knowing that you were not progressing at all.

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Sim isn’t the only game mode and is directly tied to the rest of the game. It doesn’t have separate progression. Therefore it will never be without SL as a currency. It makes no sense that Sim would be any different than any other game mode in that regard. Talking about changes removing SL from sim would do means nothing because SL is a part of the game that isn’t going to change.

IL-2 is a paid game, Arma is a paid game, Hell Let Loose is a paid game, that makes them completely different than Warthunder. Warthunder has a completely different business model as those games do. If you look at any other game with a model like Warthunder (Wargaming’s World of titles being the most prominent), you’ll see they all have a normal currency to take care of the ammo costs, repairs, modifications, ect. SL is integral to how this game progresses at every level.

All you’ve done is prove you know nothing about it with your reply.

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I’ll give you a short example. as an F-4E player I always have to compete against 11.7 planes in sim in the future. my options are severely limited. now the DCS F-4E module is coming out soon… with it I can do everything anytime and anywhere without restrictions. without *** SL. and the motivation is the flying itself. not some tech tree or some silver cats.
yes I know now the people are coming again…you can’t compare WT Sim and DCS balblabla. but you can. you can get inspiration for Sim there to make Sim better. without turning WT completely into a second DCS of course.

so and the sickness of WT Sim is 1. that we are in the shadow of AB/RB. and 2. that a Sim mode with potential is being squeezed into a free to play game where it doesn’t belong.
the original sin was that after the joint Wings of Pray project, Gaijin had complete control over War Thunder. it’s our bad luck that C1 Company couldn’t pursue our sim as its own project.
we would now have the most brilliant flight sim ever.

and I’m just annoyed by people who write that the winnings of other players have to be lowered. that the evil abuse has to be fought. that Sim would never work without SL.
People who argue like this have contributed to the downfall of Sim with their “gaijin pls punish abuse” metality. snail slime mentality. Read it 100 times and that’s enough. I don’t mean you of course. you just want a good game.

Sim out of WT als seperate game and SL gone - that would be the salvation for Sim.

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I dont think you will be an at all affected by it actually. US F-4E right?

Current list of 11.7s in SB (as of the BR changes announced the other day)

US: F-14A
UK: Tornado F3
Italy: Tornado ADV & AV-8B+
Germany: None
Soviets: None
Japan: F4EJ Kai Phantom II
China: JH-7A
France: Mirage 2000C-S4 (latest event)
Sweden: None
Israel: None

I am expecting the Mirage 2K to move up to 12.0 as well

Which means, on a regular basis you will see. F4EJ Kais and JH7As. That is probably it. Tornado ADVs maybe, but I dont see Italy very often. The reason why 11.7 top brackets are going to be so common is because there simply isnt that many. And the fact you are now Playing the F-4E against only 11.7s where before you were mostly playing against 12s and 12.3s is a huge win. Surely that must make it evem better than before.

I would stop playing SB, everyone would. What is the point of playing the gamemode if you cant use it to research new vehicles?

Im really glad the event can be grinded out in my Normal gamemode, I would hate to Play ARB to do the events.

Im glad that Daily Tasks can now be done in SB. For the same reason above.

I dont want to HAVE to play ARB, to grind out a new aircraft before I could play it in SB. I want to play SB.

There is Custom battles if you want SB with no economy.

Is it perfect. No. There are areas for Improvement. Biggest for me would be for first spawn to be free. Would make a world of difference to the economy in my opinion. Overall some areas might need rebalancing, some turned down yes, others turned up. SB economy just needs some TLC. But I would not want SB removed from the economy. That would be worse possible outcome imaginable. You might as well just delete SB from the game entirely

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I’ve always said I’d prefer to just pay for the vehicles I want to fly rather than work through the TT. Though now that I’ve unlocked virtually everything it doesn’t really matter to me but if all sim players were there for the experience rather than the grind it would change the entire game for the better.

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with SP of course. the pure gaming experience with more depth!!! the teamwork!!! the atmosphere!!! completing missions. you would be totally happy.

In Hell Let Loose, for example, I also have SP and unlock content. Weapons, uniforms, camo. what’s special here is. I am not only improving the US Riflemen but also the same class for the British, the German and the Russian. Transferred to War Thunder, this would mean: you grind a 5.0 Mustang, a 5.0 Messerschmitt, a 5.0 Yak, etc. at the same time. a great system that brings many advantages.

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The OP is the problem now. He is the one upset about the rewards being low and guess what. His low rewards for the game he pictured is his own fault. He caused his rewards to be low, not Gaijin. You can still get absolutely insane rewards compared to RB and AB, especially from bombing. But now you can’t abuse it by flying to an airfield, making your attack run, and then crashing intentionally. You actually have to put time and effort into flying complete missions. That is a true Sim experience isn’t it? Flying out an entire mission and not just flying out to crash in 10 minutes? Playing PVP in sim is a better Sim experience than bombing because you can long strike multiple planes and loiter as an air superiority fighter and if you get shot down that is a normal outcome.

Sim is not the primary game mode of Warthunder. If it was, Warthunder wouldn’t be where it is today as a game with a growing playerbase. Sim belongs in Warthunder just as much as any other game, it is a fun game mode that has an experience unlike Air Arcade or Air Realistic.

Hell Let Loose isn’t the same as Warthunder, it is a PAID infantry tactics game with a focus on realism and squad tactics. Warthunder is a FREE vehicle combat game with a focus on balanced vehicle gameplay. That system doesn’t work for a game like Warthunder because of the business model. You absolutely don’t understand anything about the economy of this game and how important it is for the game’s existence. If this economy didn’t exist, neither would Warthunder.

You really seem like you hate how Warthunder operates from a basic level, so why even play? Go play exclusively DCS, it sounds like you like you enjoy it more than Warthunder anyway. Warthunder isn’t a serious Sim game like DCS. It has a sim game mode with a more real feel to it with first person only view and no spotting, but those are the the largest changes from Realistic.

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it’s always a good idea to stand up to the unimaginative snail. it’s players who have the ideas to improve sim.
even if many ideas seem unrealistic at first. it’s players with ideas who have built mods. this has often resulted in entire games. such as insurgensy sandstorm or many other games.

and i know what war thunder is. thanks for the explanations.

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I don’t hate the game, I hate the company. and the “stop abuse” help sherrifs. I hate them even more.

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So you hate the players that want things to be fair and not exploitable? That makes complete sense.

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I play SB to fill out the time; I don’t like ARB because it looks like a glorified team deathmatch, although the reward is indisputable. The reward in SB is fine, I suppose; I even use the timer on my phone to mark 15 minutes of helpful action, and when nearing that time, I play conservatively and land immediately after the proper action to gain a landing reward.

I play both PvE and PvP in SB, and PvE is much more relaxing and profitable. That does not mean that I hate PvP; the thrill of DF and Lobing BVR missiles is fun, but as an above-average player, it’s hard to survive a long time in PvP, and that means resetting the useful action timer, only gain part of the reward, no landing reward, etc. I never hated the PvE players; I know the pain of trying to relax (especially after work), but I am drawn to PvP matches.

The problem is the FARMERS and BOTS that skewed the reward for SB. Even if you play PvE from attacking bases and Ground units, 15 minutes is just enough time to gain >80% of helpful action rewards. Granted, I am not the base bomber. I play Su-25T and attacking PvE units (tanks, AA, convoy) and roleplay a bit. It’s not profitable compared to F4s that can bomb two bases in one run, especially with AA convoys being as deadly as they are now.

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  1. you explained to me that WT is a free to play game with currency and not a simulation. right?!
    every free game with currency has a large number of players who don’t want to enjoy the game, but just want to grind quickly (abuse). if you find the free to play game system with currency so perfect then don’t complain about abuse.

  2. gaijin does not divide the sim community into fair players and abusive players. if the RB community screams that sim players earn too much then ALL sim players are abusers for gaijin. all of us. even the fairest of the fairest. complaining about abuse here is like self-mutilation. we all experienced that over two years ago when usefull action was introduced.

so enjoy your game and just let the others do their thing.

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It does very much in the sense you won’t get very far in Sim if there isn’t PVE engagement. Coming to just repeatedly find and engage other players will not progress the game.

It’s an objective based game mode. Not just a ticket or destroy the enemy team game mode. Working to further the AI is what makes the match end.

Otherwise the game takes all day.

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I didn’t say that it would progress the game. It is an objective based game mode, I don’t disagree. I said that it is a PVP mode. In the sense that there is two player teams and attacking other players is allowed. In contrast to the PVE modes that there is only one player team and you can’t attack other players. Not once did I say otherwise. You are trying to make a counterpoint to something I didn’t say anything about. That is the exact reason I didn’t mention gameplay, because I know it is objective based. That doesn’t change the fact that Sim is a PVP mode, as in Player verses Player is allowed. Please understand that we are both right, but in different ways, so let’s leave it alone.

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  1. Grinding quickly is not abusing the system. Get that part right. ABUSE IS THE PROBLEM, not how the game’s free to play model works, not how silver lions work, nothing of the sort. ABUSE is the problem. When you have players exploiting game modes with bots to bypass playing vehicles they don’t want to, that is ABUSE. When people are selling bots to other players for that express service, that is ABUSE. When gameplay is deteriorated because of people exploiting things, that is ABUSE. Noone wants to see people ABUSING things in the game.

  2. If the Sim game mode has much higher rewards for completing the same tasks, then it needs to be toned down for fairness. If this was DCS we wouldn’t be having this discussion because there is no progression. Warthunder is a game based on progression for everything. Researching vehicles with rp, researching modifications with rp, earning silver loins for purchasing vehicles and modifications, all of that is the core of this progression based system. No game mode should have vastly more rewards than the other unless the difficulty is much greater. That is why the Realistic modes make slightly higher rewards than Arcade. Realistic mode has harsher physics, no lead/drop indicator, and no spotting (or shorter range spotting in Air Realistic). Sim has harsher physics, no spotting at all (except for allies under 1km), no allies/enemies on the map, and requires the use of relative control or mouse joystick controls. That makes it more difficult than Realistic, and it gives more rewards as a result. There was a point where Sim had even higher rewards than it does now, and the community spoke out because it wasn’t fair.

You cannot take an attack plane like the A10A Late into Air Realistic and use it for its intended purpose. You are too slow to make it to any bases and bomb them, and you get jumped on by supersonic fighters as soon as you are spotted. Even planes like the Tornado IDS struggle to do appropriate bombing and ground attack in Air Realistic right now. Their speed/maneuverability with heavy payloads makes them prime targets for fighters. Grinding attackers in Ground/Naval as CAS is almost impossible with a stock plane as well. Especially in top tier with advanced SPAA and Helicopters with all-aspect heat seekers. Now in Sim, you can the the A10A Late, the A7s, Su-25s, Su-7s, Su-17s/22s, Harriers, Yak-38M, and any other strike plane and attack targets virtually unopposed. Yea, it happens where people in fighters will kill you, but not anything like Realistic or Mixed battles.

So yea, it makes sense that people got upset that you could grind out any plane with bombs/rockets so easily and rewards needed to be dropped some. I can tell you now that rewards in Sim are better than Realistic by a long shot. A takeoff, hitting two bases (or airfield in sim) returning to base, and landing is worth more in Sim than Air realistic. But guess which one is actually harder to complete that flyout in? Air Realistic by a long shot.

I played two games, one Sim and one Realistic with the Tornado IDS WDT61. Both are interim results before victory/loss additions. The Sim game (Dover Strait) I dropped 10 1000lb bombs on an airfield and came right back to an airfield and crashed prior to landing. I earned 8,494 RP and 31,997 SL (with 7.1k used for spawn) in 11 minutes and 26 seconds . There were two enemy planes in the game and I was never in danger of being attacked/destroyed. One key note to this game is that since I attacked an airfield and not 2 bases, I did not earn the reward for 2 base destroys. That did negatively effect the rewards for the sim game. This happened because two bases were not available on the map and I wanted to make each game resemble each other as much as possible. The game on Realistic (Southeastern City) I dropped 10 1000lb bombs on two bases (as airfields aren’t attackable). This earned 9,742 RP and 52,700 SL (free repair used, Would be around 47,00 with adjusted repair cost) in 7:45 seconds. There were 16 enemy planes, and I was within weapons range of 2 F-4S phantoms, 4 Mig23MLs, and a J8. One key note about this game was that I had to fly a route around the entirety of the map and two bases I wanted to attack were destroyed before I could bomb them and I had to bomb the right side two bases, and that I crashed attempting to land (that is why I crashed in the Sim game).

The Sim game I was never in danger and earned comparable rewards to a very rare Realistic game. By no means is the Realistic game repeatable as you can see +/-1 matchmaking, and destroying 2 bases and returning to the base is a rare feat at 11.0. The Sim game I picked the match and 11.0 was the highest battle rating allowed in the game. I could join any Sim game on another map and repeatedly do the same mission. I was honestly surprised that I could accomplish the Realistic game in one matchmaking session, but any other map and an uptier would have changed the outcome drastically and I would probably not be able to have another game like that for 10-15 matches.

I did this to show the difference within the modes. Sim is on massive maps, with very few players, and no spotting while Realistic is on much smaller maps, with 16 enemy players, with spotting. Realistic is a much more dangerous game mode when compared to Sim. So it makes complete sense that Realistic players would be upset that Sim players would get much more rewards for playing a much less dangerous game mode.

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79

abuse?

If you mean a better grind how is that abusing you in any way?

I don’t hate the game or company or devs. Sim is PVPVE.

The SL/RP per minute should be higher for SB than RB or AB and this current system far from that. I think that is the alpha and omega of this discussion.

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I think people in premiums kamikazing into AFs spamming rockets. At least thats the worse abuse i’ve ever seen. Though there are claims of lobbys out there with multiboxers who will line up “players” on an AF for someone on the other team to come and kill. Though I dont know how true that is these days.

I see where @Laserdestroy is coming from. Whilst SB is a lot harder, it is arguably safer and ultimately much slower pace. In a 15 minute cycle in SB, you might not see an enemy player and drop your bombs on a base with ease. In RB you are evading up to 16 enemy players on a tiny map, with markers and a match rarely lasts 15 minutes. There isnt significant need for the rewards to increased is SB as the rewards are based upon the danger/slower pace of SB.

That being said:

  • Removal of first spawn costs (Shouldnt be starting a game in-debt)
  • rebalancing action/rewards. (Like attacking a carrier rewards penuts, it should reward a lot more)
  • Rebalancing bombs vs Rockets. (rockets are overperforming currently)
  • Improve short term gains. (its possible to get 5 kills and die shortly afterwards and you will earn less than someone who killed one person and ranway)
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