Air SIM EC without Air-to-Air missiles

[UnknownDistance]

@BleedingUranium

If you find a certain area of the game / tech level “boring”, then it’s on you to instead play a part of the game you enjoy.

You act like I don’t play different areas of the game.

@DirectSupport

The same people who deride BVR as toxic or boring are the same ones who will keep playing top tier/BVR and not the Korean war jets. At this point in time, we can’t take your word for things and have to look at your actions instead.

Do you even play sim at all?

If you did you might realize that Korean war jet tiers are just infested with bombers/PVE grinders and premium players in Ariete and Sea Vixen.

[Morvran]

@UnknownDistance

Sea Vixen

Ah yes, Gun-only mode would work wonders for the Sea-Vixen

[DirectSupport]

@UnknownDistance

If you did you might realize that Korean war jet tiers are just infested with bombers/PVE grinders and premium players in Ariete and Sea Vixen.

So here’s what’s going on according to you, feel free to correct me.

There’s two problems on-going currently:

1. Top tier is one sided in terms of BVR and higher player counts
2. Korean war jet tiers are infested with bombers/PVE grinders and premium Ariete/Sea Vixen

Now why is the solution to these 2 issues to have air sim ec without air to air missiles, instead of fixing problem #2?

[UnknownDistance]

This guy is basically just asking for some kind of dogfight centric game mode. I already pointed out that I didn’t necessarily agree with it.

But if you think people want something different for top tier because “oh wow bvr too hard” I think you are mistaken.

[UnknownDistance]

Just don’t play the game mode? It’s not like he is saying that guns only should replace EC.

[Panter2005]

The idea itself is not bad, but I don’t think it should be just as an option when creating a lobby.

If this were to be implemented, it should be a new non-profit (but also no repair cost) game mode. Battles played in this game mode wouldn’t count into stats too, maybe there could be a new tab in stats for this game mode. It would be a “fun mode”, like it is in other games.

It could be available in sim, realistic, as well as arcade modes. A new game mode, but of a different category. I don’t know how it could be solved UI-wise.

It shouldn’t be a normal game mode you can grind or play competitively (if someone cares about it in this game lol) in. If you want to play modern jets, you should have to play modern jets using everything they come with.

Guns only with modern jets is stupid in a war that standard modes are, but as a sport it would be fun.

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I personally think such mode would be stupid and unnecessary, but I get that a lot of people want to scratch their itch for dogfights in modern jets.

[Drya_d_BMD]

-1 because, while i do agree that toptire sim is hell and shouldnt be toughed right now, this feels very out of place. its not like that there is a ground mode that disables a type of ammonition or a naval mode that disables the aa cannons. I think if ther was to be a solution then it should be something that modifies the overall game and not just disables a certain aspect, even if its just in one singular gamemode. an alternative solution would be, making certain ammonition cost sl to use. like the presets on low tier planes which you have to rebuy every now and then one would have to rebuy certain ammo for the custom loadouts. for example if you have aloadout with aim120’s and aim9’s but you onnly use the aim120’s then you have to rebuy aim120 so you can use the loadouts with the aim120 on this plane again. this would hopefully encurage to be thoughtfull when spamramming becasue just spamming would be costly so you better think twice before launching

[Panter2005]

@UnknownDistance
Your whole post is just hating on American aviation mains at top tier. There are only 2 sentences in which you actually give your opinion on this suggestion.

@UnknownDistance

Often times the reason that a lot of people play top tier is because they want the ability to sleep-walk themselves into a 90% win rate based on the virtue of having better equipment.

Of course. Anyone who wants to play modern jets the way they are actually used in real life is just a dumb American main, who wants to click a few buttons and feel superior.

[Miraz05]

This is only going to favour some specific jets. Things like the F4J doesn’t even have proper guns. Its totally reliant on AIM-7Fs.

[Komrad_Raiden]

@DirectSupport

Realistically there isn’t any immersive-ness to them if you’re making it to the merge without any missiles having been flung. BVR also consists of positioning.

Games dont have to be realistic to be fun, quite the reverse actually. I am suggesting a simple addition that would create space where players could enjoy something different.

@DirectSupport

Then your problem is with the imbalance of fox 3s, not fox 3s themselves. Either you have an issue with fox 3 imbalance, or you have a problem with BVR itself. Lets not mix up the two.

I dont have problem with neither, i simply enjoy dogfights in modern jets more than the missile playstyle (which i enjoy too).

[Panter2005]

@BramborovySalat

these people also kinda forgot that the warthunder was pretty much in the dogfight meta (albeit with IR missiles) before the multipath nerf.

That’s why excessive multipathing is bad. I think in real life it’s 5-10m and 0 above water.

The consequence of multipathing is that people can’t dodge a 17g Phoenix.

[BramborovySalat]

@Panter2005

I think in real life it’s 5-10m and 0 above water

Afaik depends on missile. For example if MP was modeled for each missile individually, skyflashes would go from mid to nuts.

[WalletWorrier]

Not sim EC, no. That’s supposed to be like the most realistic mode, and so it doesn’t make sense for guns only. And certainly not as a permanent mode, too many aircraft would have balancing issues.
Guns-inly seems more like an ARB event mode to me, something more akin to this (which apparently has been locked because of squabbling lol)

[Morvran]

Only for earlier SARH missiles.

MP basically doesnt affect most missiles. Skyflash’s min alt is from the prox fuse not from the MP affecting the seeker

[WalletWorrier]

Hey, you’ve always got one bullet left 😏

[Morvran]

Just gotta use those AGM-12s

[BleedingUranium]

@BramborovySalat

if MP was modeled for each missile individually

Apparently the same major update which lowered the global value also came with code rewrites that will allow for this in the future, so it’s likely coming at some point.

[S3b5]

Personally I think it would be better if it was no all-aspect missiles. IMO that would be more fun.
So no R-60Ms, R-73s, AIM-9Ls, Magic 2s, etc.

[PercussionCap]

@Komrad_Raiden

Add an option to the player, who is creating Air SB EC lobby, to disable any Air-to-Air missiles.

@Komrad_Raiden

To avoid pure PVE lobbies, only smaller maps would be available after choosing this option (debatable).

That uhhh… would make it so there’s MORE PvE lobbies. No all aspect missiles to shoot them down before they can suicide rocket bomb the airfield.

If this mode was a thing, you’d have to disable every single ground target OR ‘dumb’ air to ground ordnance like bombs and rockets, leaving you with just AGMs and laser guided munitions. Even then it would be far easier to do ground attack since nobody can hit you from 20km away, and some might use AGMs as some kinda ghetto air to air weapon.

[YaBoyCoconut]

@Komrad_Raiden

Yeah well every plane is different

“Yeah well every plane is different” says the enemy F104 as it shreds my already anemic J-35A in a single M61 pass.
The BR placement in a no AAM gamemode would have to be completely remade. An absolute balancing nightmare for all involved.