In the name of the simulator mode there is the word “simulator”, so it is a mode that comes as close as possible to a real scenario. However (unless I am mistaken), it is rather rare to send modern combat aircraft without weapons
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This doesn’t really make sense for War Thunder in my opinion. The entire balancing system (Battle-rating) relies on the weaponry at hand. Several modern Jets are also not at all built with dogfighting in mind, usually because they’re more focused on employing the weapons you’re suggesting to remove or certain missions like intercept… What do we even do about aircraft like the Tornado if we’re gonna balance it only with dogfighting in mind? Have it fight props? What do we do about the F16 and Gripen? If only balanced with dogfight in mind, they wouldn’t even be in the same bracket as any red side jets.
Russian flight-models are also completely messed up at the moment, and that’s not even taking into account the fact that they wouldn’t be able to rely on their HOBS missiles like their doctrine
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Again, if you know that your Tornado sucks in a dogfight, then why would you join the guns only lobby?
Youre complaining about an issue that my suggestion does not cause.
I think it should just be kept to custom battles for now. I could possibly get behind a “duel” mode where you just matchmake against other people in the same vehicle as you are flying, with a global scoreboard. That would be fun
It’s an example of how modern fighter jets are not necessarily built with dogfighting in mind, it’s a last resort and honestly unrealistic to happen IRL. It’ll just cause tons of balance issues. How do you suggest this would be balanced? How would matchmaking work? When you press play with a Tornado or an F16, what decides which aircraft you go up against? Because I can tell you right now, SU27’s and Mig29’s would either have to go down in BR, or F16’s, Gripens etc would have to go up. They should not be in the same matchmaker if you only consider guns.
Also, how about addressing my other points such as this idea inherently disregarding Russian dogfight doctrine where they’re built to employ and rely on their HOBS missiles?
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My interest to your counterarguement dropped to zero after seeing the
so i didnt pay attention to the rest.
Matchmaking would sort itself out thanks to the players that would play in these lobbies.
Also:
This is a video game, not a war simulator where youd have to abide a doctrine. If you want to use missiles, there are already other game modes for you. If you dont want to dogfight in an inferior aircraft, noone is forcing you. My suggestion only adds options to the player, without taking any from him.
Might aswell tell us you just want PVE only matches.
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I made a point about:
And how it would cause balance issues. Because the way Gaijin balances aircraft in War Thunder, is through the Battle Rating system - which includes armament.
You are the one pitching the idea here. If you can’t even address how a single aircraft like the Tornado or the F16 would be balanced with your idea, then frankly nobody is going to take you seriously - which is also reflected in your poll results.
???
If I press play with the Tornado or the F16 in your only-guns game-mode. Who would I be matchmade against? I seriously hope you’re not suggesting we keep the current BR’s with armament removed.
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So why are you suggesting this as a possibility in SIMULATOR mode which is the only mode that is meant to be a war simulator?
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I mean, this change would make certain planes absurdly strong .
If i were to think of an example, id say the SU25T would be a really strong contender.
2x KH25ML, 2xGsH-23L and 16x Vikhr.
Considering that most people would come straight at you without worries (since AAMs arent really a thing in your proposal), you’d get free kills upon free kills with the Vikhrs.
Same can be said for most aircraft carrying laser guided ATGMs , especially those with AS-30L.
There are also a handful of issues. Planes relying on speed would become almost impossible to kill. Stuff like the F104s , F111 and other such planes could just run away and do as they please .
I would love the idea of Sim EC without AAMs, but the issues that might arise are just a bit too much (exactly why i voted no).
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I play top tier specifically so that I can play with radar and radar guided weapons. I don’t play sim that often, but I found dogfighting to be the least enjoyable part of it.
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As you and many others pointed this out, it would indeed be better if air-to-ground weapons were disabled too.
Yeah well every plane is different
At this rate just play prop air sim
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Or even just Korean War jets
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I voted no. Some people already stated some of the reasons why, so I will skip those.
I think that those who want top tier aircrafts but a mode without missiles are somewhat delusional. They want to be able to enjoy the cool looking modern airframes without the technologies that accompany it. These are the same people who will want to dogfight with F-22/Su-57, and deride any usage of missiles. Separating modern aircrafts and missiles goes counter to the existance of these modern aircrafts. Dogfights should be enjoyed with props or Korean war jets. Dogfight fanatics do not have a place in top tier and from here on out with more modern aircrafts. I suspect these same dogfight fanatics attempted to keep multipath at 100m in order to unrealistically contort the game to their liking.
It is in my opinion that dogfight fanatics actively oppose increasing BVR and IR capabilities and constantly deride top tier gameplay as “toxic” because they refuse to learn and enjoy BVR combat, but they will still insist on playing top tier instead of korean war jets and props hence the delusions.
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This, and it is not SIM only issue.
these people also kinda forgot that the warthunder was pretty much in the dogfight meta (albeit with IR missiles) before the multipath nerf.
I disagree.
BVR is not hard to learn and its not hard to do…it’s just boring. It’s especially boring when one side has much better BVR capabilities and higher player counts.
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Somewhat true. The most modern jets are simply super cool, but also the easiest to fly.
Now dont get me wrong, im not a dogfight fanatic, I very much suck in a dogfight, but the immersiveness and the actual challenge of positioning and actual dogfighting is the the thing i enjoy on it the most.
This, exactly. ARH missiles were exciting for the first 2 weeks. BVR with regular missiles is boring + there are large differences in their performance, putting one side into disadvantage.
If you find a certain area of the game / tech level “boring”, then it’s on you to instead play a part of the game you enjoy.
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The same people who deride BVR as toxic or boring are the same ones who will keep playing top tier/BVR and not the Korean war jets. At this point in time, we can’t take your word for things and have to look at your actions instead.
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Realistically there isn’t any immersive-ness to them if you’re making it to the merge without any missiles having been flung. BVR also consists of positioning.
Then your problem is with the imbalance of fox 3s, not fox 3s themselves. Either you have an issue with fox 3 imbalance, or you have a problem with BVR itself. Lets not mix up the two.
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