Air RB/SB **Proposed** BR change list

[Aegis270]

Data is from Statshark, it’s a great website for getting flight model (even missile) data.

The Mirage 2000 S4 gets Matra Super 530 Ds, which despite having a higher alphabet number than the 530 Fs that the Mirage F1 gets, are a substantial upgrade.

The biggest advantage is the CW seeker over the pulse seeker. While it does give launch warnings on RWRs, unlike the 530F, it’s resistant to chaff. It’s also faster and more agile than said 530F.

You can think of the R530D as a slightly slower AIM-7F, as it’s other attributes are borderline identical.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Pangolin_Fan

France:
Mirage F1C/Mirage F1C-200
ARB: 12.0 → 12.7
Best IR + SARH with very good radar, with good flight performance and loads of countermeasures.

This thing being same BR as planes like F-4S is absolutely absurd.

Joke take. Mirage F1 is extremely mediocre at 12.0 save for the two magic 2s.

@Pangolin_Fan

The Matra seems to be immune to every form of counter measure aside from just lead it into the dirt. notch + multipath or notch + chaff is more consistent against a Su-33 of all things, than it is against the Mirage’s science fiction SARH.

HOLY SKILL ISSUE

@Pangolin_Fan

Snap I forgot abt that one. MiG-21 Bison should be 13.0 minimum. It’s just straight premium bias along with the mirage.

Yeah… .the MiG21 bison with a MiG21 airframe with no upgrades, with 2 r27Rs (not even ERs) and 2 r73s should be 13.0 along with the MiG-29G (on the weaker side of 13.0 jets) that is a strictly better flight model (as mid as the 29G flight model is) with R27ERs instead of R27Rs and 2 more R73s… right…

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Aegis270

This is so completely wrong that I struggle to understand how you could believe this yourself. It’s a pulse seeker, same as on the R3R and AIM-9C. That means any chaff anywhere in it’s seeker head will instantly fool it. That’s just basic game mechanics.

They have somewhat recently added some chaff protections to the 530F/Mirage F1 but its rudimentary and not all that effective. It can ignore chaff sometimes but isn’t consistent.

[Aegis270]

@Normandy_Corsair

They have somewhat recently added some chaff protections to the 530F/Mirage F1 but its rudimentary and not all that effective. It can ignore chaff sometimes but isn’t consistent.

I suppose it says a lot about the missile that I never noticed this.

Based on some rudimetary research, it looks like the chaff rejection is based on relative acceleration, and thus only really works consistently in pure front or rear aspect. However, it never worked in my experience.

[Normandy_Corsair]

Yeah it’s not as strong as say, the F-4E’s 7E2 avoiding chaff, which at least requires you to do something other than press chaff.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Aegis270

Magic 2 requires good launch conditions

This is true of every missile in the game . . . aside from R-73 ig.

@Pipimer

they are fine at 13.0

XD LMAO

@Normandy_Corsair

Joke take. Mirage F1 is extremely mediocre at 12.0

Absurd skill issue.

[Aegis270]

@Pangolin_Fan

This is true of every missile in the game . . . aside from R-73 ig.

And this makes them free kills… how, exactly?

In order to make them unflarable, you need to be at close range and behind the enemy you want to fire at, without them simply pulling too hard to get enough lead for the shot. Oh, and they can’t be preflaring either, which is something I always do if I see an F1 at close range. Basically, you have to have already outplayed them in positioning before you even launch the missile.

Again, they’re good missiles. They will get you kills if you know how to employ them effectively. But they aren’t any more of a free kill that swatting some poor, uptiered plane with an AIM-7F because they had the audacity to stray above multipath height with an F-4J/S anywhere near him.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

@Pangolin_Fan

@Aegis270

Magic 2 requires good launch conditions

This is true of every missile in the game . . . aside from R-73 ig.

Ah yes, the R-73, better hope you have an ir src / are literally touching the enemy for them not to be flared.

What a bad example

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Aegis270

And this makes them free kills… how, exactly?

You can’t just fire an Aim-9L at a flareless target . . . from 3 miles away rear aspect and complain the missile is bad when it fails to hit the target.

@UniqueScorpions-live

Ah yes, the R-73, better hope you have an ir src / are literally touching the enemy for them not to be flared.

If you genuinely belief that the R-73 is somehow bad then idk what to even say at this point.

[Aegis270]

@Pangolin_Fan

You can’t just fire an Aim-9L at a flareless target . . . from 3 miles away rear aspect and complain the missile is bad when it fails to hit the target.

Quite the strawman there. Try arguing against a point I’ve actually made.

For a missile to be a free kill, it needs to be triviallly easy to get a kill with it. Like when the A-10s/Su-25s were at their original BRs, and got to throw their all aspect missiles at flareless subsonics every game (instead of just some games).

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Aegis270

Quite the strawman there. Try arguing against a point I’ve actually made.

The point you made was literally that because the Magic 2 requires not being braindead, that means it’s not very powerful, and I was showing how that’s silly.

[Aegis270]

@Pangolin_Fan

The point you made was literally that because the Magic 2 requires not being braindead, that means it’s not very powerful, and I was showing how that’s silly.

That’s not what I’ve said at all. I quote:

@Aegis270

Again, they’re good missiles. They will get you kills if you know how to employ them effectively. But they aren’t any more of a free kill that swatting some poor, uptiered plane with an AIM-7F because they had the audacity to stray above multipath height with an F-4J/S anywhere near him.

They’re good missiles. They are not, however, the comically overpowered free kill machines you seem to think they are, especially on a lackluster airframe like the F1.

Not that you’d know this, as you’ve never played the F1. Nor any plane with French missiles of any kind. Nor any of the Russian planes you assert as overpowered. Or really anything at the tier aside from a smattering of American planes and a couple of high tier squadron ones.

Maybe just accept the fact that you don’t have the expertize to make these blanket statements. I try not to pass judgement on vehicles I haven’t played, because you never really know how they perform until you get some hands on time with them.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Aegis270

They’re good missiles. They are not, however, the comically overpowered free kill machines

They pretty much are. Unlike other powerful missiles, e.g Aim-7F, all you needa do is get close, launch, and don’t be dumb. If your enemy fails to spot a supersonic plane and start preflaring in a very short window of time, they just die with no counterplay.

[Aegis270]

Once again, you don’t know what you’re talking about, since you’ve never used them.

Front aspect, especially in direct headons, they’re mostly useless. The range at which the IRCCM would prevent flares from spoofing them is also the range where the proxy fuse won’t have armed in time to actually fuze on the enemy plane. And anyone who isn’t preflaring when jousting an enemy plane that has all aspect missiles is already making a mistake.

Side aspect, it’s not at it’s best, but can work. But this is where the problem with the F1’s flight model come in. It’s legitimately hard to pull enough lead to get the missile close enough, fast enough, if your enemy isn’t stalled out, doubly so if he’s actively evading you. I generally find the most success here treating it like any other all aspect missile, and trying for longer range ambush shots where the oppposing pilot never even realizes he’s being fired at, but the IRCCM often doesn’t factor into this. It’ll bail you out if your opponent notices the missile late, but that’s about it.

Rear aspect is where it’s at it’s best, but again, the flight model issues mean that if you slot in on someone’s six, and they see you and start pulling, you just aren’t going to be able to keep up unless they’re stalled out.

This is still the best chance to make it work, and it often will, but this all came about from managing to get the boat of an F1 onto someone’s six in the first place, and that isn’t simple. Ask yourself how many times you’ve managed to comfortably slot onto someone’s six at close range with the F-4C, then extrapolate out to an F-4C which handles even worse, and is up against much better fighters. The F1 can see F-16s in a partial uptier.

And it’s worth keeping in mind, this is all just for two missiles. On a platform that has made massive sacrifices in all other aspects in order to have two strong missiles at the tier. And once those two missiles are gone, there’s really no redeeming features about the plane, aside from a boat load of countermeasures and SARHs that don’t ping RWRs (But are instantly spoofed by chaff in almost all situations).

[pooqich]

@Aegis270

Once again, you don’t know what you’re talking about, since you’ve never used them.

there is no point in arguing with him

he never had an f5 flare off a magic 2 with a single flare

he never had to decypher the “”“RWR”“” on the f1

he never had to use MemeTI to guide a pulse missile at 12.0

bonus: funny fuse on magic 2 in a headon :)

like how would this guy understand the aircraft shortcomings if he quite literally knows jackshi- about it

[UniqueScorpions-live]

Because I’ve used magics, aim-9Ms, R-73s etc. my favorite is aim-9Ms because they’re extremely hard to miss with

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Aegis270

It’s legitimately hard to pull enough lead to get the missile close enough

Sounds like a user issue. The F-4J is even more of a brick, and positioning matters even more, and I don’t have issue lining up proper side shots.

[Aegis270]

@Pangolin_Fan

The F-4J is even more of a brick, and positioning matters even more, and I don’t have issue lining up proper side shots.

Again, no it isn’t.

There are few aircraft the F1 can actually hang with in a turn. Any F-4 Phantom can beat it, even the F-4C. Any MiG-23 can beat it, even the MiG-23M. Any F-5, MiG-21, Viggen, Draken, Kfir, anything that isn’t a ground attacker or an interceptor. The Mirage F1 is the brickiest “jet fighter” that isn’t a Tornado.

You didn’t know any of this, so stop trying to pass blanket judgements on it.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Pangolin_Fan

This is true of every missile in the game . . . aside from R-73 ig.

R-73 also requires good launch conditions.

@Pangolin_Fan

XD LMAO

They are fine at 13.0 until the game is decompressed.

@Pangolin_Fan

Absurd skill issue.

Compare your statcard to mine, get back to me with the results.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Aegis270

Again, no it isn’t.

Buddy, statshark graphs don’t mean anything in ARB.

@Aegis270

There are few aircraft the F1 can actually hang with in a turn.

Turning doesn’t really matter a whole lot. As long as you can pull for a strafe and line up a missile shot (which the Mirage F1C can comfortably do) then you’re fine.