It sounds alot like the old Air RB EC.
I like the ideas that you proposed and the changes to markers too.
Heli’s should be added.
My idea would be to split even larger than current maps into 5 zones.
Each end zone is heavily protected by AA which serves to protect a main base(s).
These are used to supply resources to forward operating bases that populate the next zone.
This zone is allied/enemiy controlled but needs patrolling to keep said control.
If the FOB’s are not replenished with resources then fighters get reduced loadouts till the base runs dry and becomes susceptible to takeover/destruction.
Heli’s can be used to carry supplies (logistical) like Chinooks, Blackhawks and Mi-26. Maybe even logistical aircraft like the Herc etc…
These can be covered by Attack heli’s and/or fighters.
The logistical gameplay loop is there to supply the strike aircraft and fighters pushing into the central no man’s land to gain superiority and then push further into the enemies controlled airspace.
If one team plays well and the other doesn’t then the final scenario would see precision strikes on AA to make way for the capture of their home/main supply base.
This adds multiple gameplay loops with niche rewards. It promotes teamplay to maintain the fighting operability of the attack.
Now there are many things, with this idea, that would need working out.
I think the premise is sound though.
If everyone jumps in a fighter and attacks then they may only be able to manage 2 or 3 waves (RTB) and then there just wouldn’t be any weapons or fuel to resupply.
The team that shares the load and maintains supply lines wins over an extended playtime of 3 hours or so.
As a player you should be able to jump in and out of the fight as suits.
Maybe have even longer campaigns?
These could also be based in real life scenarios…
Anyhow, thats my two pence/cents.
It would definately bring me back to Air RB and probably give some much needed respite from CAS to Ground RB to boot.
Go sim if you don’t want markers.
I have nothing against markers, I actually prefer them as they are now.
While I do think reworking them a bit would make the game better, I like them on because my eyesight is poor.
Where’s the fourth option? I want markers to work like they are supposed to, not to have the game conspicuously choose which planes to show and not to show even though the parameters are supposed to be fixed.
Further, planes should be rendered all the time like they were before New Power (server replays are still like this, watch one if you want to know what it looks like), the game shouldn’t be picking and choosing which planes to physically render in either.
I am not sure to what you are referring to exactly. If two planes overlap the one closer to you is displayed while the one behind is translucent. Same goes for markers behind terrain. If this is what you meant.
This is an anti cheat measure, it’s not going away, that much I can guarantee. Improving it’s accuracy is also unlikely as it’s very computationally expensive.
With an expert crew, detection range is supposed to be 6.84km in the direction you’re looking, unless the sun is in frame, in which case it should be 1.71km. Many, MANY times I have seen people not spotted when they should be, or spotted when they shouldn’t be according to those rules.
EAC isn’t even a requirement to play ARB, so perhaps as a compromise we can enable EAC and remove the horrific spotting heuristics.
I am not going to argue about bugs and anti cheat. Open an issue on the bug tracker.
Here I was thinking this was a suggestion thread…
Yes, for reworking ARB. Saying how markers are not working properly when they should is not a gameplay or gamemode issue, but a technical one. Open a bug report. Same goes for the other issue.
Markers not working properly IS a gameplay issue, you shouldn’t be so naive to think that it’s a bug instead of an intentional intervention. Same goes for the physical rendering of planes in the game world, if an anti-cheat measure has negative gameplay repercussions for people who aren’t cheating, it’s then a gameplay issue.
It’s not the idea you don’t like, but the execution. A lot of other games use the same anti cheat technique, only in those game’s it’s implemented better so people are happy. The spotting system is very complicated, and I don’t honestly know if what you are referring to is a bug or intentional, but you seem to think it’s a bug.
You think they aren’t working as they are supposed to, so they are bugged.
While this bug does affect ARB, it’s not within the scope of this thread. I am well aware of a lot of bugs that affect aircraft, but you will see that I didn’t include any in my original post.
I’m dead xD
“match dynamics”
Basically 16vs16 chaos purely based on luck. fly close to the ground to be invincible from radar missiles and fight in some dumb furball for a few minutes.
No strategy, no thought, its become just like ground battles, brainless call of duty style gameplay.
I find it incredible that 16v16 is still a thing in top tier ARB even after the multitude of threads made saying how utterly trash and garbage it is. The only way to get somewhat consistent wins in TT ARB is to get into a 4 man squad in the best planes.
Idk why you and @TheSeeker even started this exchange.
Ever thought about that the current spotting/marker system keeps cheaters away from Air RB? Most cheats in Ground RB are based on enabling spotting without markers…
Imho spotting & markers is (besides dots, contrails and sound) essential to assess enemy threats (location, amount of enemies and their energy state) outside SB, that is the reason why i play Air RB.
And yes, the spotting mechanics are not working as intended, this is purely a result of weather effects. Dusk / dawn weather, heavy clouds and various cloud layers at different altitudes (some are extremely thin) allow you to sneak up on enemies until it is too late.
As spotting and markers are a universal game function (like weather) - and markers also facilitate PvP actions - it makes no sense to discuss to terminate them just for radar equipped aircraft; neither from a game play nor from a game mechanic perspective - in prop RB tiers you need them.
I fully support any changes with regards to the markers regarding the annoying ai planes, so things like replacing ai dots on you minimap with triangles or anything different than enemy player aircraft, but this is imho a different topoic…
My opinion goes back and forth on enemy markers for RB.
The removal of them would definitely provide additional gameplay mechanics at the upper tiers but i understand how it could get extremely annoying and increase the “3rd partying” aspect. It would also give an advantage to players with good monitors.
Gaijin definitely needs some consistency with markers. Maybe it is the weather effects but there are times im literally dogfighting someone and they’re not spotted. It’s goofy and broken atm.
Even if markers for aircraft within a certain proximity remain on, maybe there is a way to make them more interesting without killing awareness.
For the upper tiers, I can imagine a setup where an enemy is spotted by a “diamond only” within a certain distance from your plane. This could be effected by crew skills.
- this could be called “level 1” spotting.
This spotting could also cause friendlies within a certain distance only to spot that enemy as a diamond only. Maybe if you get super close to the enemy, the full spotting is revealed (plane type, player name, etc).
If you have a plane with a radar that is only pinging the enemy, now the red diamond is made larger and more noticeable.
- this could be called “level 2” spotting.
This could now illuminate this specific enemy at distances greater than the standard level 1 spotting for you and your friendlies within a certain proximity to you.
Then if you successfully lock an enemy, now that enemy is fully revealed - plane type, name, etc.
- This could be called “level 3” spotting.
Level 3 spotting could also occur within a certain proximity of your friendly airfields as well and potentially if we ever get an AWACS.
As stated above, level 3 spotting could occur if you’re just really close to the enemy as well.
I Just want something to make gameplay more strategic and interesting.
Right now spotting just feels like an RNG.
For this we will need extra-large maps like those in DCS and make sure every ingame jet gets their proper external fueltank loadouts.
Yes gaijin where are my fuel tanks for J-8B/F after even mig 21 got their tanks??
Also if we get AWACS and supersonic bombers i would really want to own them in my own hangar… I’ve been dreaming for the three drones and C-47/Ju 52 etc in my own hangars for a long time.
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Also a similar rework for the PVE modes will be tasty.
In my opinion it would be great to revise markers to “just a red dot”, but that should be complimented by smaller lobbies, OR, by adding AWACS as well, and as long as AWACS “sees” the enemy plane the labels should be as informative as they are today. Haven’t thought this through in all aspects, but something along those lines. Therefore I vote to keep markers as is, because ONLY changing the markers in todays combat chaos (which is more suitable than “combat environment”) of 16v16, that would change many things drastically. MAYBE to the better, but that’s very hard to know. I would be open to have more different game modes cycling around in ARB matches (as EC vs. Regular are today), so that some matches are 8v8 or even 4v4 without labels, some are the 16v16 small map chaos we have today and some are EC. Hopefully even some more variants to give more varied gaming experiences.
A lot of people here only look at one of our proposed ideas in isolation. This would obviously not work. At least a few would have to be implemented together to be an improvement. We can’t really spread airfields across the map if all objectives remain in the middle, for example.
I also see a lot player focusing entirely on markers in this thread, while they are honestly the least of the problems ARB has, in my opinion.
I am working on making a mission that will incorporate most of these ideas so that players can actually play it, but it will take some time. Also not everything can be done, we don’t have radar datalink, so AWACS wouldn’t work, or at least it not in that way.
I agree with this. I also believe air spawns at altitude and spread out(perhaps in a line or multiple groups) would add more variety and options for tactics. I think it would make things less linear and also help with the “boring” fly in a line for 4 minutes and then furball that can be seen in the bigger top tier maps
With ARH coming this would give the option to BVR or you could dive to the deck, cashing in on altitude for speed for flanking.
Edit: I also believe that airspawns would be less work than adding airfields. So maybe that is something Gaijin might look at as an option.