Alright, now imagine Call of Duty but your guns do full damage to AI bots but half damage to players.
The game implements vehicles that rely on specific doctrine and tactics but then makes the use of those impossible. That’s what has everyone bothered. I WANT to have a fun time bombing bases, I actually think it can be interesting. I WANT to attack ground and sea targets, but I can’t actually do it because the game is made to make the life of a Bomber or Strike Aircraft difficult.
On the Russian dev stream yesterday BVV_d said they are thinking about making a new mode (mission??) where those AI radar and SAM units from the trailer will be used.
About a week after the major update drops I’ll make a few new polls regarding team sizes, ARHs, AI units and whatever else comes to mind. Let’s wait and see how they are on the live server.
Thank you a lot for your feedback! Glad that someone who is playing since the beginning chimed in.
I will have to read this a few more times to take it in.
I have just one question for now.
How would PVP not end the round if all players from one team are dead?
I had some games on the dev servers with half teams with bot (6/8 vs 6/8 real players) it’s so much more enjoyable, and the games are not like 4 minutes long
I agree with some of your ideas, but not all
How would this apply to bombers who shoot down aircraft? They get nearly no reward for defending themselves? There’s also issues where someone would be forced to shoot down aircraft in an attacker in order to win or protect a friendly. There’s also issues with certain planes that are classified as attackers, despite being very good fighters at their BR, such as the F-84B and G. It nerfs rewards for contributing to your team, which is bad.
I completely disagree with removing enemy markers. It would make finding aircraft too difficult and annoying. It would not benefit the game in any way, either.
I think your ideas aren’t bad, but reducing the rewards does not make the game better in any way at all.
I am all for increasing rewards for planes doing what they were meant to do, but rewards should never be reduced under any circumstances.
A player should not be forced to get 1/100th of the rewards in order to win a match just because they chose the wrong plane.
Reducing rewards is never the right thing to do, and it makes me angry that people genuinely believe that it is.
Edit: What you want is something like this, Specific RP/SL bonuses for each vehicle type. This rewards players for doing intended actions, but it doesn’t punish players for doing other acctions.
And that can be fixed somewhat by increasing rewards for players doing the correct task.
Rewards should never be reduced under any circumstances.
There are better ways to make players use planes for the intended purpose. Reducing rewards helps nobody. Your idea punishes players for playing the game in a way you don’t approve of. This is bad.
That is why a combination of ingenuitive, dynamic map, objective and gameplay design, a long maximum match time (2 hours) while introducting a real matchmaker lobby system (think Hell Let Loose) is the direction the game needs to move. A player could either A) wait for a new lobby to fill for a game to start or B) jump into an existing match.
ARB is currently just Live. Die. Repeat. on maps and objectives built over 10 years ago primarily for prop diriven aircraft.
I have read your post a few more times now.
I actually don’t mind this at all, but this just turns the match into PvE for the winning team, and I don’t think Gaijin will allow increased rewards.
But I am also unsure how much it would help make bombers and strike aircraft more playable and more useful. This only helps them if their teams wins, and most such aircraft are not that great at fighting. I think this again devolves into people only playing fighters, and if they win they would go back to base to get some ground pounding weapons. I don’t think a lot of “fighter mains” would be to happy to be forced into ground pounding after “winning”.
I really hate this. Imagine you are a strike aircraft or a bomber defending yourself and take down two enemy planes only to be shot down by a third. Not not only do you not get to do your mission, you get no rewards from taking down 2 planes.
I think this is the wrong way to go for fixing this issue.
Our post focues more on top tier, I haven’t thought about low tier planes at all to be honest.
I agree with this. Evasive maneuvers should help you stay alive under AA fire. For AF AA I say put bigger guns and more of them, so that it’s still deadly.
This more seems like a technical issue than a game design one.
We came to pretty similar conclusion as well. I agree with this.
A lot of top tier planes are fighters even though they can do ground pound just as well. Our whole post revolves around top tier. Some of your ideas fit it, but also a lot of them don’t.
We never wanted to force anyone into any specific playstyle.
You are trying to forcefully cram a solution into the current ARB, which we have proven doesn’t work. Why do you think these airspawns need to stay? People need to open their minds more, instead of going “This won’t work in current ARB”. Yes, of course it won’t, that’s why we are trying to change it.
No more negative feedback loops, we have enough of those in War Thunder.
“All plans got out the windows after you merge”, or something like that.
You would also get 1 tenth the rewards if you even think about contributing to your team in an alternative way. I think rewarding players for doing actions is good, but punishing them for not doing the right actions is bad.
Take this hypothetical scenario: A team has eliminated all ground targets in the match. That team’s last plane alive is a bomber. The other team has 2 fighters that are alive, who need to kill the bomber to win. If the bomber shoots the fighters down, it gets virtually 0 rewards for that action, despite winning the match, and immensely contributing to their team.
Or why should a lone fighter pilot be forced to ground pound and get 0 rewards in order to win a match?
Why should I be forced to play an attacker as an attacker, despite it being a capable fighter plane?
What is your obsession with reducing rewards??? Any reward reductions are bad. End of story. If you keep saying they are good, you are wrong.
I am not fully against the rest of your ideas. I just think this one in particular is terrible.
Of course, Gaijin would reduce the rewards. However, that also harms the players. Are you really taking a corpos side on something like this?
Punishment harms the game and its players. Rewards benefit the game and it’s players. Rewards shouldn’t be culled because a plane isn’t doing what it was designed to do in a video game.
I am done with this conversation. If you think culling rewards is a good thing, please stop playing War Thunder.
I would love an additional modifier, but there shouldn’t be any reductions.
But they are able to. A heavy bomber has guns on it for a reason. By using them, you are protecting yourself so you can do what you were meant to do.
If it was unintended, why is it allowed and possible? Gunshipping on bombers never works. Some fighters absolutely can play the role of an attacker, and vice versa.
Needlessly complicated, and doesn’t fix anything wrong with the game.
Culling rewards is bad no matter what. Why should a bomber be forced to earn pennies because it defended itself on it’s way to do what it was meant to do.
So I am forced to earn nearly nothing because I chose the wrong plane? What kinda weird logic is that?
You are advocating for the game to be made 10x worse and 10x more toxic.
Did he really say this? This would be great news!
God no. Pummeling defenseless bots in an AIR COMBAT mode is not a good way to decide the outcome. We are here for PvP not PvE. As it currently stands, air RB is a brainrot festival where the premium aircraft grind and is generally skilless. I would NOT like to see this made even worse by killing bots becoming the main objective.
Because this is an air combat mode. There is a place for these aircraft in the game, it is called GROUND RB. As people have been saying aout the A-10 and such, they are intended to be ground attackers, not meta defining threats in an air battle mode.
With most of the playerbase just bombing, being premium aircraft and unskilled pilots, teamwork will not end up working. In current air RB, having a team that works together is extremely rare and only ever happens in the very late stages of the game.
Air RB. It is in the name what the objective is, being air combat.
Go to sim, this has already been violently shot down in another topic.
I took the effort to defeat all of my enemies. As all of the enemy players are defeated, i have won the game. I should not need to waste my time on useless objectives or leave the game and lose.
Go play sim if you dont want markers. Spotting is already bad enough.
They werent intended to be good for air combat. Go use them in ground or naval.
There is no connection. A6M5 is so overtiered because bad players attempt to turnfight it. F4U-1A is generally just piloted by very bad players who will attempt to turn with the first thing they see.
Markers are great for game health. Removing them just generally makes paying attention to large amounts of enemies even harder. This is also pretty huge in missile tiers, where removing spotting you screw over everything with bad/no radar or rwr.
I can kind of see the benefit of no markers, I personally really like it in GRB - well, most of the time. I’m mature enough to know this is a fringe case, but my eyesight is a bit fucked even with glasses, which only somewhat fix my nearsightedness. It’s a weird case since I’m not BLIND without them, in fact I can se relatively well for a decent enough distance, but it has funny issues in WT specifically - regardless of if I’m on my potato laptop that needs to run on ULQ or on my PC that can run the highest settings, I tend to not be able to see unmarked planes well unless they’re either skylining with high contrast (green plane blue sky) or literally within a kilometer of me and moving erratically - even then, a lot of the time I struggle spotting them and the only help is if I catch a glimpse of that white shit coming off the wings when you turn (English isn’t my native language, sorry).
It’s usually fine for me in GRB, it feels fair since engagements are close anyway and I have my ways to be competent if I hop into CAS, but in ARB I’d be damn near entirely incompetent because I can not see a damn thing. I’ve even had issues of mistaking point blank destroyed tanks for live ones in GRB - either I’m even more blind than I think and my brain is substituting what it think I SHOULD be seeing with what I’m, well, NOT, or my brain is otherwise completely fried. Either way, no markers in ARB would make me entirely useless, and your idea would be pointless if they were something you can toggle bc who the hell wouldn’t toggle them on, eyesight issues or no?
Sorry for the rant and bad formatting. Eyes are starting to, uh, idk itch or whatever. Dry ass mfrs. I might have to start buying eye drops. My left one even gets blurry sometimes so I’m just rushing to type this.
I’m not sure how a gamemode where i can enjoy fighter gameplay is a bad thing? Again why am i playing AIR BATTLES to kill bots and not actual human players?
Because as usual, lord snail can’t balance anything.
How does my opinion on air RB relate to ground???
Because like i said, low BR, bad pilots. They will try to turn with anything. Gaijin balances based on a vehicles efficiency in battle, and when you have lots of trash pilots and few good ones, stats are skewed to the lower end.
Aha, so my F-104S ASA at 11.3 can just eat shit and die? oh well… Markers are also especially important in missile tiers, ESPECIALLY when AIM-9M and AAM-3 comes into play. 16 vs 16 also absolutely kills any possibility of removing markers. MAYBE just MAYBE massive backlash in Spanish’s thread about changing markers is now hidden.
Good. It is an air superiority mode. I’m tired of seeing perfectly good fighter aircraft rocketing and bombing bases. Waste of team slots, just useless players who will do nothing and die. Furthermore, where is the fun in spawning, blowing up a base, dying and repeating? These pilots who bomb only learn to bomb, meaning when they make it to rank 8, they are bombing in an F-16.
I am not sure how you don’t understand that fighter gameplay is still the core of our suggestions.
While I don’t agree with everything @GoneToTheAether said, I agree with them that we have serious problems in ARB.
Because you are pushing for completely removing strike aircraft from ARB, thus the only place they can play is GRB, further ruining that gamemode??? I think that GRB sucks because of CAS. If we fix ARB so that all aircraft are usefull in air realistic battles maybe we can fix GRB next.
Which is universally accepted to be a bad balancing technique.
Couldn’t be further from the truth. It would be called Fighter realistic battles in that case.
Have you read our original suggestion? It would make it so that bombing is not useless as you say. It would give people who like these planes and this playstyle an actual place in ARB. They wouldn’t be second class citizens anymore.
I don’t think people who do that are having that much fun. That’s what we are trying to fix that. They are probably grinding to reach top tier, in hopes there is fun to be had there. Can you blame them? The grind is atrocious.
This is mainly what I disagree with you on. I think we can better design the gamemode so that such “toxic behavior” is not the best course of action. I believe you are jumping the gun with “0.1x for actions outside your role” and similar.
Counterpoint, and I see this a lot in Ground RB - without markers, people simply don’t know that they’re about to pull up on a Zero and will full send the fight, which will inevitably result in their demise.
This is especially true if they’re in a decently agile plane like a Yak or Spitfire.
Surprise matters more than “hold camera-stare-backward/target tracking cam:enemy button while facerolling on keyboard to prevent enemy gun solution” is why I think it leads to much better air combat, more engaging fights in general, and less third-partying in said fights.
I absolutely agree. Using the P-51 or P-47 feels way better in GRB. For me at least.