Have you ever aced a crew for free? If so, did it take you long?
I aced two for free and have several others in the works. It’s not something I focus on, it just happens over time.
I don’t consider it predatory since its can be done for free. If it was locked by a pay way maybe Id agree.
The whole crew skill system doesn’t feel right in a PvP game and should be changed.
I don’t think it’s P2W, but it’s definitely a mechanic that’s highly anti-player as you can basically pay to get performance, saving yourself dozens of hours to do it manually.
Having this pay-for-performance system in a PvP game is never a good idea.
My Mustang Mk Ia I have ~23 hours in (assuming 60 minutes per game. There’s outliers, but it’s a decent approximation.)
Bf109F4 I have 31 hours in.
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This is the progress I have with both (theyre roughly my most played planes in SBEC.)
Having low awareness and vision above 8.0 is asking to get jumpscared, my crew is level 20 on my vautour and I can hear enemies before they actually render, brilliant system.
Everyone has the option though, to pay or earn it. I sense many are just upset that they themselves do not have ace crews. They want them, but dont want to earn them through play or pay for them.
Only thing you can really do is play something else if you do not like how things are. Many are upset but still play this game like its a job for some reason.
I play props only - just in Air RB - and 16 of my 20 most played aircraft have ace crews - unlocked by playing them.
I fly usually (4 exceptions) just planes which have good flight characteristics when using a joystick with my generic profile - If i don’t like them, i don’t fly them.
The 4 planes without the ace crew are 3 premium planes i flew as first aircraft in the TT (=with a level 1 crew) - i use just the prem Il-8 from time to time for tasks which require a strike aircraft. They were obtained by events or war bonds) and the only TT plane without the ace crew is the G8N1.
You might take a look at this older post (and the whole thread):
And yes, it takes some time, but i see unlocking the ace crew as part of the game.
I respect your opinion, but this i disagree regarding this:
Imho the ability to gain an advantage just by buying a more capable crew / pilot is exactly in line with the general understanding of p2w.
Even at prop BRs there are a lot of mixed battles - so if you face an identical aircraft you can exploit the advantage of having a way better g-force resistance by enforcing high g-load maneuvers…
I do feel like the crew training is absolutely noticeable in lower br, but not so much in higher.
Back when I first started I thought it was absolutely necessary. Mostly because I didnt not know much about the game.
Now I do care about it, I can do just fine with a stock crew. I feel it will not determine the outcome much.
This. But not the second part. It creates a huge differential in games giving those willing to pay, either in time or money, a quantifiable advantage.
Even just experting requires having the SL available. If you’re SL poor, you’re going to struggle and not be able to gather more to advance.
Of course Gaijin won’t change this because its all by design to induce spending money (works too, today I bought a bunch of GE to buff and even up my crews. /shame).
G-Suit is the last thing I unlock on aircraft now.
Relying on sustained 9G maneuvering in air RB is a good way to catch your speed too low.
7G sustained is usually more than enough and stops me from misusing my energy.
I only really expert crew for dogfight aircraft now, which is usually 1 or 2 of a variant to play in custom battles.
Usually max crew + G-Suit is more than enough for random battles.
Am I wrong or expert crew costs the same SL amount as the vehicle itself? Few days ago i purchased and put in service a rank VIII jet and I spent almost 2.5 mln. 1 mln and a hundred for the vehicle, 350k to put it in the lineup and another mln and a hundred for expert crew.
I have no problem with the grind of ace crew. In some occasions it’s important to have it, but to me expert crew is enough, maybe a bit too expensive still
It is either equal to the vehicle cost or 3-4x the crew cost. Either way, its a lot
This comes down to the definition of P2W that different people have.
I think something is P2W only if you can get that thing by spending money, which of course applies to the things that increase the performance of your vehicle/crew.
That said, something doesn’t need to be P2W in order to be scummy or extremely anti-player.
The fact that everyone has the option to get it is why I haven’t stated it’s a P2W mechanic, but that doesn’t make it any less anti-player.
Being able to pay for performance upgrades instead of having to grind for them is the problem here. I don’t think monetizing that aspect of the game is particularly smart from a non-profit oriented standpoint.
It’s only anti- the players who don’t have it - not so much hte players who do!
Its 100% pay to win imo.
Take two players of the same skill level, place them both in a F-86/MiG-15/F-5/F-16 and have one player in a lvl 1 crew, and the other in a lvl 75 expert/ace crew that they purchased using their credit card, then have these players enter a rate fight.
I ensure you the lvl 75 crewed player will win on the first pass due to the lvl 1 crew player succumbing to GLOC. That by definition is pay to win.
I’d say it’s anti players who have it too. Why?
It discourages new players and makes your fights unfair. While winning can be satisfying, winning because someone blacked out in a descending spiral while you didn’t despite your planes having zero historical reason to justify this difference is not satisfying.
And it also negatively affects you by reducing playercount by introducing unnecessary dams upon player capability. If someone comes to fly ASB, unlocks the 109F4 and spades it… Assuming they’re a totally new player who only plays ASB they will be spending…
5000 skill points to get both G-res and Stamina to 5/5 each.
That’s 500 000 RP gained.
Assuming maximum reward, never dying, always landing… Each 15 minute useful action cycle rewards up to 2500 RP (2000 RP for the cycle, 500 RP bonus for landing).
That new player is spending 500 000 / 2500 x 15 / 60 = 50 hours until they are on par with veteran players flying the exact same plane as they are, doing the exact same maneuvers, using the exact same controls.
And that’s before we consider the ace grind. This is just going from 0/0 to 5/5 + expert.
Good chance said new player may get burnt out as they not only need to learn how to play but are also actively sabotaged by the game from doing the same thing they see others doing.
Said new player might say screw this and go play one of the other two flight sims, giving you one less player to play against and emptier lobbies.
Which leads to boredom.
Which leads to you yourself playing the other two flight sims.
That’s a fair point. I remember when EC was introduced I had to move some planes from a slot to another. At that time, playing mostly RB and Sim i was focused on few crew slots, so some of my planes had a pretty low crew level. Well, despite having a better dogfighter I lost some duels because I was too often black out and it was extremely frustrating
It’s a self-evident notion that if you wish for the game you enjoy to be healthy, you need to make it so that new players can focus on legitimate challenges and difficulty (learning how to dogfight, how to communicate, how to hunt and survive) rather than artificial barriers that make the exact same input using the exact same character/vehicle under the exact same conditions yield different outcomes due to a system detached from the actual gameplay - ergo: crew skills.
League of Legends used to have grindable runes. It was awful.
They got rid of it, and had everyone unlock every rune which they can distribute as a loadout before matches. The only thing that differs between players is the ability to keep more loadouts at once which is inconsequential once you are actually in the game and simply acts as convenience.
Why?
Read above.
The difference can easily save you in any given situation. Crew skills make a massive difference.
Guys…take a look at the numbers…crews (all of them) have a MINIMAL effect…
In fact i actually think the exact reverse…paying for ACE crews is bad investment…much better to buy premium(s).
I even stopped Experting crews when SL cost became too big…there is a 1/100 case where the 0.2s faster reload (or other) may have an effect…but on most games, player actions will have a FAR GREATER effect…
And i recall that having paying customers pay for game development is a requirement of freemium games…the “trick” is making it in a way that the advantage they get is minimal…
