I think they have been pretty clear about that.
Because it’s a techtree grinder, not because of the skin. Most people bought it because it was (and arguably still is) the best tank to grind out the tech tree with quickly.
I very much doubt if it was only a skin for the tech tree Leo2A4 it would’ve sold anywhere nearly as well.
I don’t think there would be a huge difference in people one death leaving and people with 30h of game time playing toptier with a lineup (if they even know about the importance of a lineup by then) because if you don’t achieve anything you’re out of SP after your second life, but you donated more SP to the enemy team.
Also, in my experience it’s more like 40-60% depending on the day and time. Still bad, but not as bad as 90%. If newbies could start out up there it probably would be 90% though.
well… yes we can, it’s alot easier to understand the basics of the game in low and mid tier.
The reason why the lowtier gameplay is different from the higher one is because it’s reduced to basics, which is much better suited for newbies, so they can learn one thing after another.
Toptier isn’t so wildly different that playing lower tiers doesn’t teach you anything about it. Energy states and gun aim are still important in high tier jets. Map knowledge and basic tactics like flanking are still important in high tier MBTs.
They advertise modern battles because they’re the end goal, most games usually advertise endgame gameplay. Any progress based game sucks if you just come in based on the advertised end goal. Most games out there start you out slow and walk you through the mechanics and ramp up the difficulty slowly.
okay, my mistake then, sorry.
No problem :)
So is that it?? no further updates??
1 Like
well… yes we can, it’s alot easier to understand the basics of the game in low and mid tier.
The reason why the lowtier gameplay is different from the higher one is because it’s reduced to basics, which is much better suited for newbies, so they can learn one thing after another.
Toptier isn’t so wildly different that playing lower tiers doesn’t teach you anything about it. Energy states and gun aim are still important in high tier jets. Map knowledge and basic tactics like flanking are still important in high tier MBTs.
They advertise modern battles because they’re the end goal, most games usually advertise endgame gameplay. Any progress based game sucks if you just come in based on the advertised end goal. Most games out there start you out slow and walk you through the mechanics and ramp up the difficulty slowly.
A different topic like i sayed, i cant use my own expirience as i was already here when is-4 was end of the line, so i grew up with the changed from the getgo…
but
playing midtier/ classic vehicles/ tanks without assisting computer … is, for my taste, extremly different to high tier.
Teammates and enemys behave differently, they flank faster, play the pikabo game, play AA or IFVs that can do unique stuff, don´t respawn that often, airsupport is also super different, every MBT can destroy any MBT and all use the same ammo, have very similar gunhandling, reload, mobility.
“Midtier” / Classic Vehicles have very different combat style from the get go, AA is mostly just an AA, IFV mostly dont excist, CAS is a complete different story, players are more aware of the Dynamic of the battle ( likely due to the slower paste ), gunhandling is very different on most tanks, a ton of different ammo types, not every tank can destroy every tank frontaly and so on.
In general, Hightier is a lot simpler then midtier, but also often very frustrating due to IFV, AA, CAS or non respawners ruin a lot of the battles.
“Classic” Tier is much more forgiving of errors but at the same time much more knowledge dependent.
Map knowledge is with the slower paste and different vehicle types, ranges and so on a ton more important.
With the Ads and the Premium tanks/planes u cant force everyone to play through the lines, thats just smt a lot of people that joined the game recently dont even want. (at least if i ask the people in ts3)
I dont like that aswell, as i hate hightier myself, its fun for the first 5 mins, but if you respawn and play till the end of the matches the CAS and OP vehicles in general start to frustrate extremly, most people that like high tier dont play till the end, so they dont care, or they are the players that play these OP vehicles.
Please elaborate on this, as all high and top tier ground does is add thermals, stabilizer and an automatic rangefinding button, as well as increasing top speed, hp/t ratio, and often turret traverse.
It’s literally all just making the game faster, reactions can happen faster, tanks go faster, you can throw down accurate shots faster, you can find enemies faster. But at the core the gameplay is the exact same. You would have a point for Air Battles where there’s entirely new mechanics (that still need basic knowledge of the fundamentals that are easier to learn in low to mid tier) but on the ground everything boils down to just making the game quicker.
Now do you think it is easier to learn the game when it is going slow or if its going very fast? You might not have a “calculate the shot at this range for me” button in low and mid tier, but you also have alot more time to think about your shot.
I wouldn’t say hightier is simpler because it demands quick reaction times and good spotting ability from you.
In low and mid tier, someone has to come up a hill slowly, bc they don’t have the hp/t ratio to do it quickly, wait for their gun to settle, then aim, then shoot, then roll back into cover at probably 10km/h or lower.
At high tier, someone can spot you without exposure by using their commander thermals, and do the whole “come up, shoot, back to cover” in a fraction of the time because all of that is accelerate massively in high tier. If they even have to come over the
Now in which of those situations is it easier for a new player to notice the enemy and react to it, or even just to notice what that new player did wrong getting into that situation?
“You cant force people to progress through a progress based game” is still an incredibly bad take. Again, most games advertise late game, because that’s the appeal, be it FF14 or Elden Ring or WT. Even gacha games like Genshin Impact. But none of those others let you drop straight into the advertised gameplay, because you are not ready for it.
Except in WT you CAN drop straight into later tiers if you pay for it, but all the new players in toptier premiums being absolutely terrible and contributing NOTHING at all is the first and foremost reason why it’s a good idea not to let more players do that, especially not the comparatively much larger f2p crowd. It would just ruin the gameplay for experienced players that want more out of the game than just sealclubbing teams with 14 newbies instead of 5-6.
I don’t think there are OP vehicles, especially in toptier where anything dies from a side shot easily or gets breached as soon as they peek. There are some undertiered and overtiered ones, but I wouldn’t call any overpowered.
CAS is problematic at all BRs, but it’s still easier to learn to react to CAS in lower tiers.
Personally, I feel like late into the match is where it becomes more fun, when all the terrible people are gone, you don’t accidentally rely on a blind and deaf teammate and barely sentient enemies can’t kill you anymore just because they rush you 5v1 where your reload can’t keep up.
And any dude in CAS when there’s only 4-5 people left on the team is making the actual ground battle alot easier, as long as you aren’t on one of those very open maps with no cover.
- Well, i see it this way and i dont disagree with your arguments, but: In hightier you don´t need to know anythink about the game and you can still drive around and shot at enemys, you dont need to know anythink then WASD and the Left Mouse button, same with the higher tier CAS, Some Helis are basically a point and click adventure.
But thats not the case in “classic” mid tier, you either know what your gun is capable of penning, how fast your tank is, how far the enemy is, how to fly a plane and how to drop a bomb or u get out of the battle with 0 points and that will only change if your start do learn.
But again, in hightier, even a chimpanse can see the enemy and press laserrange and left mouse to get a kill or just press left mouse button and go eat a banana while the hellfire is doing its thing. You simplay dont have these kind of assistance in confentional tiers / “classic” mid tier.
And yes, almost no map is designed for these modern/modernish fast MBTs and CAS that is designt to kill tanks. They never will be, with the current game engine/state of the software and game mechanics, in general the hightier mechanics are super … “in need of improvement” if you ask me. (i want a tank only mode for that very reason to begin with, CAS designet for anti tank vs tanks is just bullshit in my eyes)
- Yes i agree that its bad, but i still think that, as long as gaijin is going this path and not changing fundametal core elements, it would be not the right thing, to force newbies through the lines and suffer brain damage from it.
- Undertiered/Overdiered is the same as OP, you can also call it IMBA if you want, the point is that some vehicles are so bad that they are unusable and some are so strong that if you ever want to play competitive you have to use one of them.
CAS i talked about in point 2. but CAS in “classic” sense without computer aided stuff, is also to strong, go in a Tu2S, F4U-4B, AU-1, AD-4, P-47, Yak-9B, Su-6, IL-2, Me 262 a1-u4, Me510 A1-U4, A2D, Scimitar, Spit, Typooon, Isreal Spit, A4E, Canberry… (i can continue for quite a bit here)… and you can, if you learned how to master these planes, wipe out whole battlefields or at least kill some or all of the advancing enemys. But u can wipe out whole teams with almost no knowledge with a Modern Plane/Heli due to the thermals, lock ons, fire and forgets. Yes you can also be killed by AA with the super easy to use AA systems but if there is none or a lower br AA the CAS can easaly, without even looking kill entire battlefields in a short time without any tank able to do smt against it.
In Midtier almost every tank has some sort of Top mounted Maschine gun that can be used or can try to hide. And if i check how many planes i kill with my 50cal on my t20 its insanely effective. Also the difference, hightier can kill entire teams, do multikills and so on without doing anythink skill related within 1minute, in midtier it takes time to kill, you need multiple passes on the enemy and you have to have also luck to not face a smart enemy AA or an enemy spawning in a plane, that is also smt completely different in midtier, if you are groundpownding and an enemy spawns, he has the absolute energy advantage. In hightier that dosnt excists, the one with brain, better plane and no enemy AA wins. But is that a good thing? i dont think so. I like it when i am in constand danger of enemys spawning in a plane when i am in a midtier plane grownpownding, that gives the enemy a very fair chance to stop me from killing them. In hightier again, its not player based if you win the fight in most of the cases, its whoever has the better plane/weaponsystem and no enemy AA watching, even a chimpanse can kill you.
I get always to the same issue, hightier is very little skill based and “classic” brs are most of the time highly skill based. And i get quickly frustrated if i get killed by some bastard playing smt OP or smt i cant fight against like a Heli or Laserguided Bombs or whatever…
but… that makes hightier effectefly easier to play for new players. They dont need to know much and can still get kills while you get nothing in midtier out of the battles if you have no idea what ure doing.
At least thats my impression.
precisely because halfway decent players can thwart you without you being able to fight back it’s a TERRIBLE idea to put newbies into hightier for free.
precisely because low and mid tier is more skill based it’s a good environment to learn for people, because they won’t run into situations they don’t understand because there’s nothing they could’ve done about it, they don’t get bombed from planes they couldn’t see or hear and have to assume they’re there probably, etc
sure a mid tier plane that’s mastered can wipe teams (honestly very few can do it alone bc most planes only get like 2, maybe 3 bomb drops, the problem in mid tier is there’s often 5+ planes up, and most bombers aren’t nearly nimble enough for precise strikes), but he also has to come in so close that you can hear the propeller sound from the ground and can react to it.
people that mastered SPAA in mid tier always have a chance to fight mastered planes, because they have to come within effective range. even if you’re terrible, you might have a good SPAA teammate that can help out. At toptier, sometimes your entire team is simply unable to do anything against enemy CAS, even if they’re the best player in the world, because they do not have a weapon system available that is able to reach it.
mid tier has a slower pace and is less about twitch shooting. it’s a better environment to understand and learn the game. things mid tier teaches you often still translates well into top tier, but not the other way around.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the research bonus will not come in time, but instead drop after the Tomcat event has concluded.
Think about all the extra RP we have missed out on.
Is this a joke? All this time “researching” the idea and this is what they come up with… Just like the bogus “skills bonus” that doesn’t make much difference, neither will this. What’s so hard about simply reducing the RP for all vehicles instead of these bogus calculations that add up to almost nothing??? I thought this idea would be a good reason to come back to the game but this is worthless. Lied to again…
3 Likes
U wonder about that? xD
As long as Gaijin dosn´t change their mentality about financing a game, and they will likely never, they won´t do anythink to make their games more enjoyable or even attractive.
In all of their puplished games its the same schematic they use to make people buy…
- Make the Grind painfull
- Make Stuff exclusive behind a paywall and change BRs, guns, features after the initial introduction or sale. (Make Prems etc purposly Imbalanced to increase sales and then change it after 6-12 month)
- Make it possible to buy progess
other games:
- Make the grind annoying but not painfull, also having a progress curve that starts low and gets faster the more you play (first top tier takes longer, 10th toptier takes 25% of the time)
- Make Stuff exclusive behind a paywall but don´t change afterwards, but try to balance it and try to avoid any changes ( i remember WoT when they changed the T26E4, every player had the pop up in game to choose if they want a refund or go with the changes and keep it)
- Make it possible to buy progress
*edit, but all that is offtopic…
yes, the bonus RP should be MUCH MUCH higher and the general Grind MUCH MUCH smaller…
and i would also bet that if the game would have a smaller grind since like 2018, the playerbase would be at 500k+ and they would make more money.
Just a system like in WoT with the 1% FreeXP and Daily XP bonus (x2/x3 of ALL RP and not BASE RP wtf…) you get would already make me and i bet a ton of others insanly more happy and eventually even change me play more and MAYBE even talk GOOD about the game in front of others LOL.
2 Likes
In my opinion one easy way to see the different mentality Gaijin has compared to other games is their rewards for “achievments”
Gaijin: here is some XP that you need to spend money on to be usefull
Other games: here is some customization and/or currency for the game
I am not trying to argue that there should be an insane reward but even some inscription, camo scheme or even just a booster as nice gesture really cant be too much to ask.
1 Like
Even in Gaijin’s Enlisted free experienced is actually free experience.
War Thunder’s “Free RP” is completely useless, at its 1=45 exchange rate.
I would rather have Free RP be earned 100 times slower but be free to use, like Enlisted… or even a 1=450 exchange rate would be good enough… but the way it currently is, I haven’t used it once since 2018.
11 Likes
I thought the “free xp” was just the excess rp from when you finish researching a weapon/vehicle, which in WT gets transferred over to the next vehicle you chose to research automatically.
(Either way actually buying the stored RP is stupid as hell with that garbage exchange rate lmao)
Enlisted has free xp? when i came out it definitly didnt.
Whatever… the conversion rate should be not to stupid. In WoT you get 5% and thats not a lot.
5% meanst that you get after grinding 20 Top tier Tanks, you can pick one for free.
Grind 20 Top tier tank here… that will take already for fkn ever… the one more doesnt do that much then.
btw WoT has 62 Top tier tanks and they never increased the cost of it since t10 are in the game.
WT has 35, and also they increased the XP per top tier tank (since the “new” research system) from around 150k to 400k+… which is btw the excakt reason why the grind is so fkn bad in the game now and gets worse with every new higher BR they throw in.
And these incresing XP cost devaluate the Free XP with every new top BR…
also the higher the BR the more XP you SHOULD get… but thats sadly not true. (also that devaluatedes a ton of premiums bought ever time smt higher pops up)
IS-4 has 465% and cost around 150k
T80BVM has 575% and cost 400k
That results in a RP increase of 23% while the tank costs 266% More
AND thats is again… why we despritly need a change in the grind system, starting with a Bonus for player that have already grinded for years and more important for all the new and future players that dont accept so much suffer like i do…
5 Likes
It’s been three weeks since this went into closed testing. Where is it?
4 Likes
It’s just getting ridiculous, in june 2023 they announced this research bonus for october/november 2023, august 2024 still nothing at all…
How hard can it be to give out a little bonus… except, they might give TOO MUCH bonus, so it needs to be tested over & over again…
Yep I got it too
