Yes, shooting down a basic balance change based on “realism” in a game where changes based on “realism” have been pretty awful for enjoyability. Yes, make 20mm takes 12 shots to do meaningful damage when desync prevents continued accurate fire. Sounds like just the “realistic” missile changes that screwed SACLOS missiles. Hard pass on making gameplay worse because “realism”. Video game, not a simulator.
gameplay is more valuable than realism, and 20mm HE sharing damage with 40mm HE is bad for realism and for gameplay. Also I’m gonna go ahead and take an educated guess you think bombers are too strong.
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I don’t at all, your educated guess is quite uneducated. Just like you think I play Germany a lot too.
If a 20mm HE shell can cause enough stress on a stressed airframe to cause it to fail due to explosive blast strength, then a 40mm would also do the same. You don’t have to obliterate the airframe for it to lose a peice, just overstress that component.
Now you’re shifting away from the stricly realism argument and trying to say it taking 12 hits from a 20mm is better for gameplay. Lets make all the dogfights more tedious and overall worse because of that whole desync problem that you seem to not want to acknowledge. It is fine the way it is.
Very convincing argument on why B-17 (a plane known for shrugging off german unguided rockets) should be 1-shot by 20mm HE hits to the wing/tail ~50% of the time exactaly the same as 40mm HE.
This isn’t a simulator, so what happens in real life doesn’t matter much. Especially when metal tearing isn’t programmed into the game and the components have “health” limits instead of having true to life structural failures where the fuselage would be able to have metal torn away and still be workable. Again, if a 20mm has the power to overstress an airframe, then a 40mm would ALSO have that ability. Like saying a 20mm and 105mm have the same ability to blownofd a wong because if the 20mm can of course a 105mm can.
Not a simulator, doesn’t need to be realisticly accurate. Video game for fun. Gameplay is more important.
Good gameplay means 20mm HE wouldn’t 1-shot planes. simple as that. Ofc, Gajin can’t let German/Russian planes require any bit of skill, so 20mm will stay OP.
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Says you. Also Britain uses 20mms and they are better than Russian/German planes by a long shot. Spitfires are probably the best overall planes in the game, and only suffer from lackluster dive speeds. They outturn everything but Japanese fighters, and absolutely troll German/US planes and most of the Russian planes.
Again, if a 20mm HE can overstress an airframe in flight it makes sense. Explosions cause massives amounts of force that can cause the supports to be overstressed and fail. If you don’t like this, then that is a you problem. Yell bais or whatever, but it clearly isn’t because every nation has 20mms and are usually greater in number than 1 nose mounted 20mm…
No not really. They deal less damage only oranging wings/tails whilst German/Russian 20mm HE 1-shots 100% of the time.
Standard baseless excuse for why 20mm HE should stay OP.
While irl it did happen on rare occasion that 20mm HE could take wings off if it hit at the base of a plane with a particularly weak airframe (e.g spitfire or most japanese planes) making a tight/fast turn, this doesn’t mean it should happen 100% for large aircraft flying slow and straight.
Though I do wonder, why are you trying to use “realism” to say 20mm shouldn’t be nerfed? I mean afterall, isn’t it gameplay that matters more?
Citation required.
So 20mm is op, but not ALL 20mm HE. That doesn’t make sense and just show you’re biased.
So I don’t know if you realise this, but Warthunder doesn’t go off of probabilty of events in real life for things. Otherwise barreling tanks and such wouldn’t be so easy, missiles would fail, and bombs would be duds. All not fun for gameplay.
The B-17 is a great example of a bomber that is under a fair bit of stress in flight (in game) because if you attempt to make a hard turn at speed with a full bombload you will instantly rip the wings. Now imagine that stress with an explosion on the wing causing more stress, that causes an acute stress failure. Bombers usually carry massive amounts of weight, and that weight causes massive amounts of force on the wings especially by keeping the aircraft in flight.
I’m not talking about realism at all. I am describing the game physics, which mostly mirror real physics in this aspect. Just like how planes can rip their wings under too great of force in game, which shows wing flight forces like momentum and interia exist. We also know that explosions carry force, even though that force may not be modeled in the most accurate way when compared to real life, but those blasts do exist and it makes complete sense that they would add to airframe stress when encountered and damage the planes frame.
I like that you are trying to exhaust every single cheap low intellegence tactic to discredit me, but it isn’t going to work. You have yet to address desync and your 12 shots of 20mm for a wing working together to ruin gameplay.
I don’t care to say german/russian 20mm HE every time I refer to Gajin’s favorite weapon so I just say 20mm HE.
rng determines 90% of Warthunder lol.
Flaps/wings breaking at high speed or Gs
Whether or not a shell pens armor right at its limit
And yes, how much damage an explosive does.
and despite all the stress it still casually shrugged off direct hits from 30mm, rockets, and even 88mm flak
hypocracy
Your points are all based off of what could theroretically happen. My points are based off of what did happen in history accounts.
you’re yet to adress desync and ~25-30 shots of .50cal for a wing working together to ruin gameplay.
But in all seriousness, it’s not desync missing your shots, it’s lack of skill.
Speaking from AB- fuck spits, they are wonderful here too. Not quite as good as 109s or the Ki-61s, but they are still very good.
.50s have a higher RoF, more velocity, more ammo- and you generally get much more of them. Personally I find no issue with .50cals at the moment, yeah they arent quite as powerful as 20mm, but they get the job done on a good airframe. Its the same with 7.7s, to be honest. And hell- late .50s are quite honestly bonkers, and I hate fighting -NAs due to them.
High firerate and ammo capacity is a major advantage they have over 20mms, as is their velocity. If you cant kill things with the 6-8 .50s you have its quite literally a skill issue.
Biased.
By all means, find the random number generator in the datamines. If it existed, the community would know. I’d love to see this random number generator proof, so please provide it.
You can’t decide wether you want to talk realism or gameplay. I never once said that I was talking about real life physics. I have been talking about Warthunder’s physics because we are discussing Warthunder.
Warthunder isn’t real life. It does not accurately reflect real life, it is a video game. What happened in real life means nothing. This is the problem with your arguement, you don’t seem to understand the difference that real life performance isn’t Warthunder performance and that Warthunder doesn’t need to reflect real life performance because it isn’t a simulator. This is a video game where enjoyment is the purpose.
Again, a cheap attack attempt. The .50s have much higher volume of fire compared to a single 20mm, which means more chances for desync not to matter as much. You must not know anything about desync, because you can watch replays where tracers are nowhere near planes and kill them and shots PASS THROUGH enemies and don’t damage them. Desync is a serious issue in Warthunder and affects aircraft on aircraft, SPAA on aircraft, and ground vehicle on ground vehicle combat the most. In ground people know it as “ghost shells”, in air it is known as dying when there are no tracer near you. A “lack of skill” is not the same as when you properly lead and hit a target on your end, but the latency of the server and other clients makes your shots do nothing.
cope
huh, I guess all those times I oversped and one wing/flap broke before the other, or in protection analysis when the cross is yellow and it says “penetration possibility is low”, or when I shoot the same spot with an HE shell multiple times and they all deal different damage was all just a halucination and wasn’t RNG at all.
Lol same hypocracy as before
Interesting you say that right after saying the physics mirrors real physics.
It effects .50cals even harder because they need to score dozens of hits to take a plane down, meanwhile a 20mm HE only needs one.
I can 100% assure you that the reason you’re missing isn’t desync, it’s just your own skill issue. I know that because I don’t encounter that problem with 20mm.
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I’ve tested in CBs and the ~10 estimated only applies to certain planes. Most take more than 20 on a single wing to destroy.
@Pangolin_Fan
Immature children with no arguments say cope.
Prove that there is a random number generator. Im sure the dataminers would be able to help.
Way to mirread the quote, I said MOSTLY MIRRORS REAL PHYSICS. Mostly meaning not completely.
Not it doesn’t because .50s have a larger volume of fire and have many more chances to deal damage past desync.
I can 100 percent assure you that I watch replays and watch tracers pass through planes and do nothing and see tracers go nowhere near planes and kill the planes. I’ve had these discussions about desync already with people in the forums. Desync is quite the known issue, but your explaination of basically “skill issue” is just as showing as your “cope” comments. Showing that you have no knowledge of the game.
Immature children with no arguments say bias*.
wings not breaking off at the same time alone proves it, as does this video you didn’t watch.
so what? You’ve still been trying to justify 20mms 1-shot using “real physics”, immediatly after saying realism doesn’t matter.
lol this alone proves your problem isn’t desync but just very crappy aiming. Desync is a small problem, but it’s not what’s causing you to miss so many shots that without being able to 1-shot your weapon is useless.
and who was saying desync isn’t real? all i’m pointing out is you’re struggling to hit shots, and i’m not.
You openly admitted that you think ther German and Russian 20mm are better than the rest of the 20mms when they aren’t really that different. Thats called bias.
Prove that there is a random number generator within the game. Your video isn’t code for a random number generator, thus doesn’t prove that it is in game.
Because MOSTLY is not ENTIRELY. I’m not justifying anything with real world physics. I broke it down for you explaining in game physics, you just can’t seem to read or comprehend it. You managed to quote from that paragraph, so I’m assuming that you read it but chose to ignore it.
It does not. Again having video and screenshots of ammunition PASSING through aircraft with NO DAMAGE is not “missing your shots” that is desync. My client is not aligning with the server and enemy player’s client and what is being projected client side is not accurate. Also known as desyncronization.
Let me correct that for you. I openly admitted that Britiah 20mm HE doesn’t deal as much damage as German/Russian 20mm HE. that’s not bias, that’s simply stating what happens ingame.
thank you for setting the record for the dumbest statement I have ever seen a warthunder’s forums.
sigh You didn’t explain ingame physics, you explained why it sometimes happens in real life. Warthunder doesn’t simulation stress when applying damage, it’s simply the explosion and the fragmentation.
Again, who said desync doesn’t exist? all I’ve been saying is desync isn’t making you miss so many shots that needing to hit 8 on 1 target would be unrealistic or even hard.
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“Ofc. Gaijin can’t let German/Russian planes require any bit of skill, so 20mm will stay OP.” - biased statement against Germany/Russia. Easy.
You can’t prove your claim in a game that has been datamined to death and back. You are wrong, simple as that.
Well then, I started the explaination by stating I’m not talking about realism at all. Pretty simple read. Warthunder does simulate stress on the airframes, that is why if you pull too hard the airframe will fail. When damage is applied to a structural member (blast, frag, pen) it weakens it and that stress causes it to break away.
You obviously don’t have the intellectual aptitude to understand the argument about the desync. Continue to think it is a “skill issue” and not a known issue within the game.
You realize bias is the exact opposite of factual statements right? ofc not.
^^^
The words of som1 who has never used datamining b4
It’s not simulation stress it’s simulation G forces. when you pull too many Gs it just breaks your wing off. simple as that. doesn’t matter how much damage your wing has taken, all that matters is if you go above the G limit for that plane.
Who says it’s not an issue in the game? all i’ve been saying is it isn’t making you miss to many shots that hitting 8 shots on a target would be difficult in any way.