I’m not saying there’s no damage. Just innsome cases nothing falls off, flash is minimal etc. Which makes me “not entirely convinced about ammo type”, that’s all.
And you might have missed the edit on my previous comment, but I’ve been asking for 20mm to be nerfed to varying extent ever since summer 2023.
Sure, nerfing all 20mm but making MG-151 on top 1/2 among 20mms is the goal and it was how the game worked for most of times back in good old days.
Back in the old days MG151/20 had a bit too.much of an advantage over other cannons due to simplified plane dmg models etc.
On top of that, incendiary, SAPI etc. have always been useless. There’s plenty of work to do for Gaijin.
bTW I’m amazed how in game Germany is the only nation with base-fused aircraft APHE sensitivity of over 1mm. Why? Because it’s the only base fuse Gaijin could find data for, and everyone else gets benefit of the doubt. The more historical data there is, the worse something behaves in game. Same with MG151/20 AP vs Shvak and Ho-5.
So there’s plenty of work to do, but it would be super hilarious if Gaijin added an HE bullet for .50 cals, getting killed by 1-click from P-51 would be super funny, and that’s what happens when you get double-Berezin’d.
Oh well, it’s not “the more historical data” “the worse it behaves”. Ho-5 is a perfect counter example and I think Mr.KillaKiwi do have something to say about it
Early Mineshells only had impact fuzes with no delay and where filed with PETN instead of HA 41. So the damage would be significantly worse.
That’s the result of a 20mm Mineshell against a Yak-3s vertical stabilizer.
In WT you take a .50cal AP and it turns it black and any 20mm explosive round will remove it in one shot.
Early Mineshells only had impact fuzes with no delay and where filed with PETN instead of HA 41
Would that also explain the change in colour of puffs produced by 20mm M-shell? Early German HE seems to have black puff, but in later war it became white, with more flash and the puff was lighter.
There was a majar fuel leak at the end that cought fire. So definitely done for. Structurally? Probably.
Certainly wouldn’t be easy to land with those hits to the tail controls.
Yes.
HA 41 creates a much brighter fireball, while PETN would practically not be visible as such.
Left is TNT + PETN core vs. on the right HTA (Torpex)
Showing 13/125 of a second.
HTA was used in 30mm HEI-T shells, while HA 41 was used in 20mm and 30mm HEI shells.
What do you mean? Right now Hoe-5 rips wings off in single shots and 80g HE and practice rounds have way better ballistics than 117g MG151/20 AP/IT/FIT shells, which makes absolutely 0 sense.
You were shooting a very big fighter probably at very long range and you were most likely hitting all over the place, as my limited experience with using gunners indicate. Assuming 3 bullets per “hit” thats 69 12.7mm - I guess you eventually killed his engine, which is exactly what should have happened.
Well, yet again here I am doing more research, testing stuff and making more videos.
heres a compilation of kills in the P-51H using the Stealth belts I just played tonight over two games:
I’ve definitely been playing too much top tier so am a bit rusty on aiming with WW2 props, then including the fact I dont have tracers to adjust lol.
Here is the original compilation using the M20 tracer belt for comparison
So, I was expecting the rounds to be significantly worse based on all the complaining in this thread but… It wasn’t as bad as I was expecting. It was definitely slower to kill than the M20 rounds, but not by that much. Only the shots on the Kikka were really bad, though he still eventually crashed so I clearly did some amount of damage.
One thing that I found interesting is that I was getting a lot more wing or tail snaps - HEF style - rather than the M20 which just turns them into a giant fireball. Hilariously this is what Dovah was originally complaining about M2 brownings not being able to do compared to 20mms.
Of course, is it the M23 doing the damage, or the M8 rounds in the belt? no idea honestly.
Killakiwi had collected plenty of historical evidences that Ho-5 should have much lower RoF and low muzzle velocity. Yet Gaijin still buffed it to 950rpm and 800m/s velocities, and hides most of Killakiwi’s issue threads about Ho-5.
So it’s not only material that matters, bias also matters, a lot.
My experience also indicates .50 cals hit very hard. In my last 2 games in Italian P-47 D30 I scored 5 and 7 kills, basically the only shots that were not really working were some dispersed wing hits when I was firing out of convergence. .50 cals are extremely effective in head ons because 1-2 bullets to the engine will usually end the fight, and sith the density of fire of 6-8 guns it’s very east to land these. And usually way more than that hits and absolutely obliterates the enemy.
I have noticed that F86 with nose mounted .50 cals has extremely short time to kill. I was able to remove all important parts of the tail from substantially-sized IL-28 in a short burst, because with the HP system 6+ 12.7mm AP bullets striking same module simply destroys it and it doesn’t matter it makes little sense, bigger modules in the planes of same type/BR range (because sure as hell P-51H is much tougher than P-51D5 in game) oftentimes don’t have much higher HP ,(the difference may be there, but not large enough for it to matter) they are just easier to hit. Same with Migs - short burst to the tail, gone. Short burst to the wing - gone.
The difference in time to kill very nicely illustrates War Thunder’s failed HP system. Inner 1/3 of Mig-15 wing IRL doesn’t lose all lift just because a few AP bullets struck it. In WT it goes black and substantially impacts the performance. A few bullets mid wing and it breaks.
Of course with the current state of guns in game rebalancing .50 cals is a fool’s errand, because we would be trying to fit .50 cals into absolutely otherworldly landscape of 20mm nuke launchers.
Thing is - for me .50 cals work just fine when I run correct convergence and I don’t spray all over unimportant parts. But even then - breaking a wing or removing a tail is really not difficult, just requires hitting the same module with a few bullets.
I was only referencing ballistics. I guess Gaijin ignoring historical data is… well, concerning. But still, the point still stands - they chose to ignore historical data and keep to their old numbers, which were, of course, superior to historical numbers. Which is the core of the problem - Gaijin assumes magical ballistics and performance and only when there’s hard data they choose to accept, it can get better, while IMO the “default numbers” should be pretty damn mediocre, instead we have 80g HE shell with nose fuse (which further impacts ballistics) bleeding less speed than 117g IT (where tracer helps quite a lot and 117g pointed nosed AP, which should have a ton of ballistic advantage.
it very clearly is the AP rounds, given the type of damage they are doing
also note the absolute lack of fires
its a pretty simple question of why you believe that the obviously bugged damage should not be fixed?
and you implied that there was no benefit to using stealth belts over a tracer belt, which shows an obvious lack of knowledge about the game
the issue is people like you showing up without understanding what I was saying and turning it into an argument; because for some reason you cant accept that fixing a very obvious bug is something gaijin should do
What distance?
What were you aiming at?
Earlier I linked videos of me using the P-51C and every time I had an actual shot lined up that raked through the fuselage or hit the engine, it immediately ignited my target.
https://youtu.be/ARz4H7PBjds
https://youtu.be/AjoTNymYbs4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SAvbEIgCyQ
What more is there to as for? P-51C has only 4 .50 cals so it’s one of the weaker loadouts AND it doesn’t have late-war APIT belts and yet… Watch the 3 videos under the spoiler tag.
Squeeze trigger against FW 190D9 for like 1 second max? It immediately bursts into flames.
Squeeze trigger and spray at Bf109F4 while my nose wobbles like crazy? It not only bursts into flames, the bullet travels right on through and kills the pilot (this is super common with .50 cals and other rounds don’t do it nearly as often. With Mg-151, I need to shoot from high aspect as the fuselage and pilot armour stops it)
Squeeze the trigger and spray at the Ju 388 while wobbling trying to not get hit by tailgunners? It took a bit longer (it’s a bomber) but… it burst into flames.
Squeeze the trigger and spray randomly at La-5Fn? You guessed it: it burst into a fireball (and although he put it out, it damaged him to point of uselessness and jumped out before he crashed).
Literally what more do you want.
So I looked up the M8 AP-I and M20 API-T, and was surprised the latter has more incendiary filling than the former despite thinking the tracer would take up space. But the pure incendiary bullet has 4x more filling than the M20, which is hilarious considering how little damage it does.
I can only imagine how good the .50cal could be if all incendiary bullets acted like the appropriate amount of TNT equivalence. The M23 Incendiary has approximately 2.1-3.3g TNTe, which would make it only slightly less effective than the devastatingly powerful Swedish 13.2mm gun.
On that same note, if incendiary composition was treated like the “low explosive” that it is, it would massively buff all other nations’ incendiary rounds, which even to this day start fires less often than .50cal M20 API-T and do less damage overall despite being larger and having many times more filling.
So I just found out that apparently the Mk. 169 Mod 2 AP-EI (armor piercing explosive incendiary) and Mk. 211 Mod 0 HEIAP bullets exist for the .50cal machine gun. Even if it’s ahistorical, I’d want to see these be added for the sake of gameplay to the aircraft guns.
Fun fact, we haven’t yet seen the true power of the Ho-5. Apparently late in WW2, Japan copied German MG151/20 mine-shots for the Ho-5. I remember seeing documents about it on the old forum.
