because I can guarantee that you dont have a video of 0.50 cal incendiary rounds doing significant damage
yes they are very obviously bugged.
given that they do less damage than ball ammo to the aircrafts skin and no damage to anything else, meaning that they cant even effectively start fires despite having 5+ grams of explosive filler IRL
even more evidence that you dont know what you are talking about
ok and? that is not what I am talking about
I am talking about gaijin finaly fixing the very obviously bugged M1 and M23 incendiary rounds
no, my point it that a type of ammo is very obviously bugged and that gaijin should fix it. while you are arguing that they shouldnt fix a very obvious bug because “no I dont want it fixed” or whatever
someone clearly doesnt understand how the game works if you dont think there are advantages to stealth belts
They are almost all using the M20 API-T belts. Which are armour piercing incendiary rounds.
Even more evidence of you missing the point
I literally said they could buff it. My point was that they could buff it and it still wont be as good as the tracer belt, but you are so fixated on this one round.
Im well aware of the advantages to stealth belts.
But please. Keep trying to discredit me of “not knowing how to play”. It just shows your lack of a competitve argument.
You still havent answered my question. Why are you so fixated on one specific round? Why not just use the tracer belt and be done with it?
So it sounds to me @Alpharius11348 like the pure incendiary bullets are bugged and doing no damage, if I am understanding your argument with Zekken correctly? I legitimately was not aware of this until reading your argument with him, FYI.
yes, the only damage they currently do is a tiny amount of kinetic damage to the aircrafts skin where they hit (or other exposed modules like cockpit glass)
Standard Mg151/20 belt against fighter consists of
3 HE(M she’ll)/1 Inc /1 API
In the video tracers mainly came from mg131, most of footages came from fw190a8 except those two hitting mustangs.
It’s mainly about distance & time allowed for a larger puff to form.
In the Spitfire footage, the distance was far enough for the time to develop an expanded puff to make the blast looks more devastating. In the case of La-7 the range is so short that the flash becomes dominant in the footage and no time for puff to be recorded in the frame.
They are bugged because they don’t actually do what they should be doing.
Mineshells deal damage by blowing up structure, yet every explosive shell now practically works like a Mineshell and it makes no difference to get hit by a 20mm Mineshell with 18.6g filler or a explosive shell with 4-8g.
Not to mention that German FI-T are not using realShatter like all the other shells, dealing pathetic damage in comparison.
While they all should be doing damage via fragmentation instead of blowing off wings and tails anyway.
Likewise .50cal M1 and M23 Incendiary are just disappearing after impact instead of traveling onwards like API or APIT.
At least M1 Incendiary has a steel and lead core, which would it similar behavior as API, minus the armor penetration.
M23 is just a jacket filled to the brim with extra potent incendiary mixture, nearly 6 times as much as API.
Not only would it deal a lot more damage to structure, it would have deal massive damage to fuel tanks and have a like two to three times the chance to cause a fuel fire.
Then again it would cause guns to jam more often since M23 can detonate inside a hot chamber or barrel.
The maximum allowed continues burst from an aircraft M2 is 150 rounds, where ammunition cook-off won’t happen.
So with M23 we can be pretty sure that it will be less than 150 before it self-ignites.
Particular because the barrel heats up more quickly than the chamber.
I doubt that as well, the Mg 131 pretty much only shoots Tracer rounds, at a higher fire rate. And once again, the belt recommondations are just recommondations, its up to supply and the pilot.
So with M23 we can be pretty sure that it will be less than 150 before it self-ignites.
The American tests for cook-off are held after the barrel fired continuous 150 rounds, since we know that the simplified version of M1 Inc and the HE round (American equivalent to Ma-102) did not pass the cook-off test and thus never entered service. The M23 as a service round should have passed the cook-off test for 150 rounds. It is just not that resistant to cook-off, say it may self-ignite after 160rds in comparison with say 200rds for M1.
My question to him was to ask why its such a big problem? Because even if they were buffed to perform even as good as the M20 API-T round, none of the belts they are part of would still be better than the M20 Tracer belt.
He didn’t really give an answer to the question and just went on a rant about how I don’t know what I’m talking about.
Yeah exactly, that was the comparison I was trying to make. The FI-T rounds aren’t anywhere near as good. But theres no 1200+ comment long thread complaining about those rounds, because people just use the Mineshells instead. And even if they buffed them people would still most likely use the mineshells because its a god damn mineshell.
Hence why even IF the M23 round was buffed to be as good as the M20 API-T round, why use it because the best belt still has half as many of them as the straight tracer belt. So you’d still just use the tracer belt in the vast majority of situations.
the entire argument just seems… like so much effort for so little return
HEI HEI HEI IT API (on the eastern front) * HEI IT API (on the western front)
It’s not for different fronts, but rather for different tasks, the HEI IT API belt for taking down 4 engine bombers and HEI HEI HEI IT API for fighters.
I’m not entirely convinced, as there’s an immediate and major damage visible. In other clips we get tiny flashes. Also the size of the flash itself differs wildly.
If Gaijin gave FI-T realShatter and gave German guns a full tracer belt like on the ShVAK, I‘m pretty sure that everyone would just start using FI-T shells instead.
As there is zero point of using Mineshells when they don’t actually deal more damage than other 20mm shells.
And FI-T, despite their low velocity, have much better long range ballistics compare to Mineshells.
I don’t see there’s any problem, at least 2-3 big flash & puff indicating 20mm Mine Shell hits around aft fuselage and stabilizer area of the La-7. Not all Mine shell will knock pieces off and not all pieces are visible in the lens of gun cam.
This one against LaGG-3 is much more clear showing MG-151 hits, Mine shell won’t break off even a composite wood wing with 2-3 hits.
This LaGG-3 first received a hit from HEI/Inc shell on the left wing, then 2 hits HEI on right wing root, then at least 4 HEI hits on the tail section to blew off the rudder. The engine section been hit by long bursts of MG-17, aircraft then burns into flames, with a gasoline explosion.
I’m not saying it should “break the wing off”, just that some clips show essentialy very little effect on target. This one clearly gets clobbered.
Anyway, maybe it’s about the light too. I also am not entirely sure if it really was 4 M-geschoss to the tail, and not 3, but he was clearly done for very quickly.
I am generally in favor of significantly nerfing all 20mm across the board, some more than others (cough, Shvak and Hoe-5, cough).
A plane which was structurally still intact after receiving 20mm firing doesn’t mean no damage. I think planes in these footages are all claimed as kills.
I just want to say 20mm won’t rip off wings as frequent as in the current game, not even MG-151 Mine Shells.
