All <11.0s are still at their BRs.
Ownership is NEVER required.
Good argumentation and reasoning exists without the necessity.
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If you move up <11.0s, you effectively haven’t decompressed top tier.
11.0 T-90A, 11.3 M1A1 (0.3 BR difference)
After this decompression:
11.0 T-90A, 11.7 M1A1 (0.7 BR difference)
After <11.0 BR decompression:
11.3 T-90A, 11.7 M1A1 (0.3 BR difference again)
Even Begleit went up to 9.7 and it’s way, way, way worse than the 2S38 by almost every metric. The 2S38 and T80UD are both undertiered by at least one step. But the usual suspects who play exclusively one nation defend it, as usual.
Also, all those "10.3"s which are great. Yet anyone has to name any. Because guess what? Most moved up to 10.7 or even 11.0 by now. And many others have ZERO vehicles at their BR to pair them with. So they get uptiered out of necessity or not played.
Well, you can either decompress 10.3 - 11.3, or you can move them up.
2S38 stays or goes up with the rest.
@Perinvisus
Begleit is worse, which is why it’s 9.7 and not 10.3.
Begleit fires a notably worse round as the primary reason why it’s worse.
Mobility is the same, armor doesn’t exist, etc.
Not really, because the effective BR difference between HSTV-L / RDF-LT and 2S38 is 0.7 or 1.0 at most.
No reason why the 2S38 should be a whole 1.7 BR different to the HSTV-L or RDF-LT.
But there is a good reason why the M1 Abrams should be 1.0 BR different to the M1A1, and not 0.7 BR different, for example.
Agreed. Though ownership can definitely give you first-hand experience of a vehicle’s properties, which can help you formulate a fairer and more grounded opinion on the vehicle based on said experience.
Though this may not always be the case due to personal bias and inexperience.
Manned turret, no lock on, worse round, worse survivability, and so on and on. Begleit is leagues below the 2S38. Which arguably is better than quite a few of the things at 10.7 and 11.0.
The difference between ZTZ-96A and Type 90 is mobility and reload. Solid 0.7 difference, yet 1.3 apart.
That’s what decompression does.
So the ZTZ96A has arguably better armour against MBT and definitely against IFV rounds (but the turret has the cupola weakspots, and the LFP is gigantic, which doesn’t really help the ZTZ96A at all), but it also gets slightly better optics and Gen 2 thermals.
ZTZ96A also doesn’t need to worry about NATO hump if I recall correctly, so I’d add this all up at a ~0.4 BR difference advantage over Type 90.
Type 90, on the other hand, gets better gun depression (-7 instead of -5), with much better gun depression (~-11 instead of -5) if you use the suspension controls at a suitable time and location. I think that is quite a big advantage of the Type 90, so it would give a 0.3 BR difference advantage over the ZTZ96A.
The Type 90 has a much better reload, which is a huge bonus. You are able to outreload everything, you are able to prevent people from pushing you after you shoot much more frequently, shoot at the same target and kill them in a shorter timespan, and shoot different targets in a shorter timespan.
If it was a 6s / 5s reload, I think a 0.3/0.4 BR difference advantage would make sense, but 3s/4s is even better. 0.5/0.6 BR difference advantage.
The Type 90 has arguably better survivability due to the safer turret bustle ammo stowage, so I’d give it an extra 0.1/0.3 BR difference advantage (shooting the ZTZ96A’s ammo carousel is quite easy and often causes ammo detonation).
The Type 90 has a slightly better shell (~481mm instead of ~466mm), but the difference isn’t really enough to warrant a 0.3 BR difference to be honest. I think it would be worth around a 0.1 BR difference advantage.
The Type 90 is much more mobile.
Just the access to a good reverse speed should already warrant a 0.3 BR difference increase, but the neutral steering, better acceleration, and better top speed would also warrant a 0.2/0.3 BR difference increase.
The gun handling is effectively the same, so neither tanks get any difference advantage over each other.
If I add all them up:
~-0.4
~+0.3
~+0.5
~+0.2
~+0.1
~+0.3
~+0.2
~1.2 BR difference in my opinion.
This somewhat aligns with the 1.3 BR difference you see in War Thunder and why people were complaining about having to face the M1A1 and Type 90 in a full uptier at 10.3, or a 0.7 uptier at 10.7.
@Perinvisus
Neither lock onto tanks, which is what they’re balanced on. If they were balanced on anti-air capability, Begleit would be 8.7 and 2S38 would be 9.7 at most.
Survivability is the same, both lack capabilities to improve survivability.
So yeah, that’s primarily the worse round.
There are also no auto cannon light tanks at 10.7 and 11.0.
@rainy2000
96A got copy-pasted incorrectly. You’ll need to edit your post as well.
2s38
Cons:
•big
•less vertical guidance
•52 less pen than rdf
Pros:
•advanced thermals
•smoke grenade
•ess
•lws
•.5 second reload
•aphe
•more ammo stowage
•can’t be penned frontally by .50
•self entrenching
RDF/LT
Pros:
•276 pen
•small
•gun depression
Cons:
•gen 1 thermals
•same speed as 2s38
•less ammo stowage
•no smoke
•no lws
•no ess
•can be .50 frontally
•slower fire rate
Please only post if you have something valuable to add or have a solid, well thought out counter argument.
Yeah I’m being objective and providing facts. You’re being subjective which has no place in a debate. You can’t just claim them as opinions because they’re not. You really think you can dispute facts? C’mon dude, do better
Doesn’t matter where it’s from, those are based on stats which are subjective and prone to skewed data due to being subject to players with varying levels of skill. Don’t bring a subjective argument to me telling me it’s important, because it’s not. I would highly urge you to actually read the whole thread because all of this was already discussed prior to you attempting to join the discussion.
And if you’re going to tell me they’re mine, you can save it. I already stated I’m average at best, on a good day. 😂
I play against russia in 12.0-13.0 BR ENOUGH as a US main to see both the amount of 1128s and 2s38s. I see at least 2 2s38s per battle.
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2S38 is popular premium that can act as light spaa.
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Right. It’s used way more often in top tier and still has decent stats. The 2s38 should really be an 11.3
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All what you did is list your (barely average player) “facts” and call them evidence why it is supposedly so strong.
10.7 it can be, everything higher is delusional.
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Just in this one 12.0 match:
One BMP-2M
One 2S25M
Five 2S38s 😅
Maybe it was exacerbated by the fact that I was in a helicopter, but it’s clear that it’s probably one of the most spammed light tanks at top tier because of how many people have it (and probably don’t have suitable SPAAs or other light tanks)
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So do you have a fact based counter argument to support your opinions, or are you just going to keep telling me what you think?
By all means, if you have a solid counter argument I’d love to hear it. 🙂
And aren’t you gonna tell me where those stats are from? Or did I take your ammo away?
For real! Too bad it wasn’t on sale, I would have bought it
And then gotten a reality check.