2s38 still at 10.3?

Why is the 2s38 still at 10.3 while other similar vehicles that play the same role have gone up? The RDF/LT has gone to 12.0 whilst having worse stats on every front minus gun depression, penetration, and size of vehicle.

2s38
Cons:
•big
•less vertical guidance
•52 less pen than rdf

Pros:
•advanced thermals
•smoke grenade
•ess
•lws
•.5 second reload
•aphe
•more ammo stowage
•can’t be penned frontally by .50
•self entrenching

Also too powerful in a full down-tier, which is ironic since I’ve seen arguments about the kvt not getting moved because it would be too powerful in a downtier. (Opinion)

RDF/LT
Pros:
•276 pen
•small
•gun depression

Cons:
•gen 1 thermals
•same speed as 2s38
•less ammo stowage
•no smoke
•no lws
•no ess
•can be .50 frontally
•slower fire rate

My proposal would be to move 2s38 to 11.0 - 11.7 and move rdf to same br (even though it’s worse in my opinion and based on the stats)

Please only post if you have something valuable to add or have a solid, well thought out counter argument.

Ad hominem attacks are against the rules so please be mindful. Using my stats in an attempt to discredit and side rail the discussion is a very poor show of character… I’m average at best, and I’m well aware of that. So attacking me personally by sharing my stats isn’t useful and is considered ad hominem fallacy.
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If you have something on topic to share then please do

there isn’t much that i could say that wasn’t said already in, what, 3 years now? this thing is just a 10.3 begleit

funny how every time the rdf/hstvl comparison comes up, nobody mentions HOW MUCH of a role the gun depression plays, you can literally hide yourself in the upper ground layer (if you play ulq), you can straight up become invisible and untouchable to anything below you

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You posted this exact same thread yesterday, and you’ll get the exact same answers.

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Smoke grenade is standard.
ESS is a gimmick.
APHE is irrelevant, it’s 10.3 not 8.3.
Reload is great against aircraft, but it’s less relevant against tanks; Its BR is 10.3 instead of its 9.7 anti-air capability.
Ammo storage is great against aircraft, but as said previously it’s already a higher BR than its anti-air.
Self-entrenching is a gimmick.
LWS is okay at best.

I bring 44 rounds of armor piercing ammo in my 2S38, I’ve used less than 20 rounds in almost all of my matches. HSTVL has 26 rounds, and so far I’ve used at most 13 rounds in one match where I got 6 or 7 frags against enemy players.

Round count in aircraft is heavily important.

In tanks? If you’re aiming to win, your KDR doesn’t need to be 10:1 [and I know yours isn’t].
My KDR is 2:1 in MBTs, and it’s like 1.2:1 in these autocannon light tanks.
Statistically speaking I fire 3 rounds against tanks per life in 2S38…

RDF LT is superior in mobility. Ammo storage is irrelevant, it’s over 20.
ESS is still a gimmick.
It reloads faster than all MBTs.
No smoke grenades is a minor issue.

2S38 to 11.0 means HSTVL to 12.3, and 2S38 to 11.7 means HSTVL to 13.0.

RDFLT is a superior vehicle to 2S38 by at least 0.7 BR based on ammo and mobility buffs alone, despite the minor issue of no smoke grenades. Mobility beats the need of smoke grenades though.

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None of the answer were very good. No

Yeah the problems come from the sky though in that br, don’t they? Prove me wrong

Arguments based on subjective thoughts…


well whats the point in arguing about the tank if you are going to simply dismiss a valid point

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Lol, dude’s gonna dismiss whatever we say as just subjective thoughts.

get-tf-out-get-out

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Fallacy fallacy, dismissing peoples’ arguments on the basis that it contains a logical fallacy.

If you’re going to point out a logical fallacy, you still have to address their points in a respectful manner.

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I suggest you check out the side shot analysis of 57mm aphe against top tier mbt’s

LWS provides a warning against some incoming agm’s amongst other things, so I disagree with it only being ok. If you can prove me wrong then please do so.

Personal experiences dont really have a place here as that’s subjective thinking. Please use facts not feelings.

Don’t know where you came up with that. Please go recheck it.

This is a personal opinion. Please use objective evidence in this topic.

Smokes are nice for avoiding agms though. Being a small target doesn’t save you from having agms launched at you with no counter.

It was already acknowledged?

That didn’t prove me wrong though did it?

Well if it has no place in a debate, then yeah. 👍🏻

Is there any (not Russian) tanks at 10.3 and up that don’t have thermals to see through ESS? Even at 9.3 thermals are more the rule then the exception, except, again, for Russian tanks.

I have been respectful. I’m not talking down to anyone I’m simply stating facts and asking for a counter argument that provides facts. If that is not achievable then I will have no choice but to dismiss them. Why should I argue against someone feelings, what good does that do?

Alright then, McNasty, if you say so. It’s OP go get 6 kills and show us. That’s not subjective; it’s called proof. You have to show us proof that it’s OP.

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Players of varying skill use this vehicle. How does that this have anything to do with what the vehicle itself is capable of?

that argument works both ways… Maybe you are only dying to the really really good 2S38 players and it actually sucks.

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