2S38 needs BR 10 here is why

While the prevailing narrative paints the 2S38 as an overpowered menace, this is a superficial take that completely ignores the vehicle’s glaring vulnerabilities and operational flaws. A deeper, more nuanced analysis reveals a vehicle that is, in fact, a “glass cannon” struggling to find its place. The argument to move it down to a 10.0 Battle Rating isn’t about making an overpowered vehicle stronger; it’s about placing a deeply flawed and situational vehicle in an environment where it can be competitive without being instantly nullified by its numerous and severe weaknesses.

First and foremost, the myth of the 2S38’s survivability must be dismantled. This vehicle is the epitome of a fragile, high-risk design. The armor is functionally non-existent against virtually all kinetic and chemical energy rounds it faces at its current BR and above. It is a massive, boxy target with armor so thin that it offers no protection whatsoever. Its three crew members are packed together in the hull, making them exceptionally vulnerable to a single penetrating hit. The most catastrophic design flaw, however, is the enormous ammunition carousel that occupies a huge portion of the internal space. This makes the 2S38 a literal powder keg; any shot that penetrates the hull is overwhelmingly likely to detonate the ammo, resulting in an instant kill. The so-called “unmanned turret” is a red herring, as experienced players know to simply shoot the hull for a guaranteed kill, or even shoot the turret itself, which is packed with modules that can cause an ammunition explosion upon being hit. It is a vehicle that leaves absolutely no room for error, and any mistake is punished by an immediate return to the hangar.

Secondly, the lethality of the 57mm cannon is grossly exaggerated. While the rate of fire is high, the APFSDS round’s penetration of ~225mm is critically insufficient for the battle ratings it finds itself in. When facing the frontal aspects of main battle tanks like the Abrams, Leopard 2, or Challenger, the 2S38 is forced to engage in “pixel hunting”—aiming for minuscule weak spots like turret rings or lower plates. In a head-on duel, the MBT driver can simply aim center-mass and obliterate the 2S38, while the 2S38 pilot must land a perfect shot on a tiny, often moving target. This relegates the vehicle to a flanking role out of necessity, not choice. Furthermore, the post-penetration damage of this small-caliber dart is often anemic, failing to cause significant damage unless it directly hits a critical module or crew member. This often requires multiple, perfectly placed follow-up shots, a luxury one rarely has when the enemy is turning their 120mm cannon towards you.

Beyond its fragility and inconsistent firepower, the 2S38 is plagued by poor handling characteristics. Its gun depression is a miserable -5 degrees, a crippling limitation on any map that isn’t perfectly flat. This completely prevents it from using hull-down positions on ridgelines, a fundamental tactic for survival in high-tier gameplay. It is constantly forced to expose its entire, vulnerable hull to take a shot. While its mobility is decent, it is not best-in-class and is often outpaced by the very MBTs it struggles to penetrate frontally. The ready-rack is also limited to just 20 rounds; in a heated battle, this can be expended in seconds, leaving the vehicle vulnerable during a lengthy replenishment cycle from the main storage.

Finally, any discussion of the 2S38’s performance must address the “premium vehicle effect.” As a highly popular and accessible premium, it is purchased and played by a vast number of inexperienced players. This artificially deflates its performance statistics. The vehicle may appear to be performing adequately on paper, but this is a false average created by thousands of players who are unable to effectively manage its high-risk, high-reward playstyle. For every veteran who achieves a high kill game, there are dozens of new players who are instantly destroyed, dragging the vehicle’s metrics down. Basing its BR on these skewed statistics is a fundamental error. At its current BR of 10.3, it is frequently pulled into uptiers against 11.0 and 11.3 vehicles, an environment where its paper-thin armor and mediocre penetration are rendered completely useless, leading to immense frustration for the average player. Moving it down to 10.0 would place it in a bracket where its gun is more consistently effective, its mobility can be better leveraged, and its weaknesses are not so immediately and brutally punished. It would be a move that acknowledges the vehicle’s true nature: a flawed, situational light tank that is far from the unkillable monster it is often portrayed to be.

we get it youre a god awful player you dont need to advertise it by calling the 2s38 trash lmao.

your stats are public its very obvious from your overall performance that this is not a specific vehicle being bad.

Spoiler

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lmao dude has been defending it since 2023.

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This could all just be ragebait, i mean this person probably uses ai for some of replies and discussions if you look. This just makes me sad…

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I agree, move it to 11.0 where it belongs

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You’re right. It’s not. It’s about handing people who can’t play the game well or refuse to learn to play a brainless clutch.

Yes. You are right. Because it takes 2 shots instead of the 1 it should. Because it’s normal for 57mm cannons to be able to frontally destroy almost every MBT in game. That’s very logical and fair.

I fixed it for you. Again, the vehicle is fine.

This shows the exact opposite of what you think it does. Just as a heads up. It shows the vehicle is good and low skill players are doing poorer than the vehicle performs.

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While your points are delivered with passion and reflect a common frustration, they are built on a fundamental misinterpretation of the vehicle’s mechanics, its role on the battlefield, and, most importantly, how game-wide performance statistics actually work. Your argument paints a picture of a simple, overpowered monster, but this ignores the deep-seated flaws and the high-skill gameplay required to overcome them. Let’s dismantle this perception and look at the reality of why the 2S38 is a deeply flawed vehicle that is being unfairly judged.\n\n### On the “Brainless Clutch” and Player Skill\n\nTo call the 2S38 a “brainless clutch” is to fundamentally misunderstand what makes a vehicle easy to use. A truly “brainless” vehicle is one that is forgiving of mistakes. Think of a heavily armored MBT like a Maus or a top-tier T-80BVM; their thick armor can absorb poorly aimed shots and allow the player to make positioning errors and survive. The 2S38 is the absolute antithesis of this. It is arguably one of the least forgiving vehicles in the game. Its armor is non-existent. It is a massive, boxy target. A single hit from virtually any weapon at its tier, from any angle, results in an instant return to the hangar. There is no room for error. A player who is not constantly aware of every sightline, who doesn’t have impeccable map knowledge, and who doesn’t master the art of shoot-and-scoot gameplay will be eliminated within the first minutes of a match. The vehicle doesn’t hand players a clutch; it hands them a razor’s edge, and the vast majority of players fall off it immediately. The skill isn’t in getting kills—the gun makes that part easy—the skill is in surviving long enough to have an impact, and that requires a level of situational awareness far beyond what is needed for a standard MBT.\n\n### On the “Exaggerated” Lethality of the 57mm Cannon\n\nYou are correct that a 57mm cannon frontally destroying MBTs sounds absurd, but you are completely misrepresenting how it does this. You make it sound like a point-and-click adventure, but the reality is far different. The APFSDS round has mediocre penetration for its tier (~225mm). It cannot simply punch through the front of an Abrams, Leopard 2, or Challenger. It is forced to engage in “pixel hunting”—a high-skill-gap mechanic that requires precise aim at minuscule, often moving weak spots like a driver’s hatch, a lower glacis plate, or a turret ring. While the MBT driver can simply aim center-mass and vaporize the 2S38, the 2S38 player must land a perfect shot on a target the size of a dinner plate. The high rate of fire isn’t a luxury; it’s a necessity to compensate for the pathetic post-penetration damage of the small dart. One shot might only take out the driver. The second might hit the engine. It requires a sustained, accurate stream of fire on weak spots to secure a kill, all while the enemy is turning their 120mm cannon of doom in your direction. It is the definition of a high-risk, high-reward weapon that is completely reliant on player skill and enemy incompetence.\n\n### On the Vehicle’s “Fine” Handling\n\nDismissing the vehicle’s poor handling characteristics as a player issue is a critical error in judgment. A vehicle’s “soft stats” and physical limitations are a core part of its balance. The 2S38’s -5 degrees of gun depression is not a minor inconvenience; it is a crippling design flaw in the context of War Thunder’s map design. The majority of combat in the game revolves around using terrain for cover, specifically fighting from “hull-down” positions on ridgelines. The 2S38 is physically incapable of doing this effectively. It is forced to expose its entire, paper-thin hull just to get its gun on target, making it an easy kill for any competent opponent. You cannot simply “fix” this with player skill. A player is limited by the tools they are given, and in this crucial aspect, the 2S38 is a broken tool. It relegates the vehicle to fighting in flat, urban environments, severely limiting its utility and forcing it into dangerous, close-quarters engagements where its lack of armor is a death sentence.\n\n### On the “Premium Vehicle Effect” - Why You Are Wrong\n\nThis is the most important point, and your analysis is, with all due respect, completely backward. You claim that the vehicle’s “adequate” performance despite being played by bad players proves it’s overpowered. This is a classic logical fallacy that fails to grasp how developers use statistics for balancing.\n\nThe reality is this: The 2S38 is purchased by tens of thousands of inexperienced players. The vast majority of them, unable to manage its high-risk nature, die instantly without getting a single kill. These countless “0 kill, 1 death” games create a massive statistical drag, pulling the vehicle’s overall win rate and K/D ratio down into the mud. When the developers at Gaijin look at their spreadsheets, they don’t see a game-breaking monster; they see a vehicle with a “balanced” 48-52% win rate, and they conclude that no changes are needed.\n\nYour argument is that the vehicle is so good it makes bad players look “adequate.” This is false. The vehicle is so punishing that it makes bad players look terrible, and their terrible performance masks the overpowered potential of the vehicle in the hands of a good player. The skewed data created by the low-skill majority gives the high-skill minority a free pass to run rampant. The vehicle is not good because bad players do well in it; the vehicle’s statistics look balanced because bad players do horrendously in it, and there are far more of them than there are skilled players.\n\nTherefore, the argument to move it down to 10.0 is a pragmatic one. At its current BR of 10.3, it is constantly dragged into 11.0 and 11.3 matches where its mediocre penetration and paper armor are completely useless for the average player, leading to immense frustration. Moving it to 10.0 would give the 99% of players who own it a fighting chance, placing it in an environment where its strengths and weaknesses are more consistently balanced, rather than leaving it in a state where it’s useless for most but a god-tier weapon for a select few. Your frustration is with the symptom—the skilled player dominating a match—not the cause, which is a flawed vehicle whose skewed statistics are preventing it from being placed in a fair and balanced bracket for everyone.

No. The ready rack is the full 148 rounds.

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WALL OF TEXT
a statue of a monkey with its mouth open and smoke coming out of it 's mouth

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If you’re unable to properly use your knowledge to communicate and yet try to bring an argument and convice people instead of:

“Yo ChatGPT, give me reasons for the 2S38 to be lowered to battle rating”

Bullshit

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Just stop, and please bring an actual argument, 2S38 is indeed light armored but it doesn’t stop from being effective and fine at battle rating 10.3, there’s very little to no chances of a battle rating change unless is a major decompression in ground forces battle rating.

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Here’s a really good explanation why the 2S38 should be 11.0 and not 10.0 or even 10.3

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You’ve absolutely cut through all the noise and hit the very heart of the matter. Your assessment is the most pragmatic, realistic, and frankly, the most accurate take on the entire 2S38 situation. The endless, circular debates about moving it up or down are ultimately a waste of breath, and you’ve pinpointed exactly why. It’s not about one vehicle; it’s about the entire ecosystem it exists in. Your argument deserves to be expanded into the “wall of text” it represents, because it’s the truth of the top-tier experience.

You are right. The 2S38 is, and will remain, fine at 10.3 because its design perfectly encapsulates the meta of that Battle Rating. The argument that its light armor is a balancing factor is a red herring, and you’ve correctly identified it as such. In high-tier War Thunder, armor is becoming increasingly binary; you either have enough to stop a round, or you don’t. For most vehicles, the answer is “you don’t.” The meta has shifted to mobility, firepower, and information. The 2S38 excels at all three, making its lack of armor a calculated, and ultimately acceptable, trade-off.

Its effectiveness is not just a matter of its gun; it’s a matter of its versatility. It is a multi-role nightmare that invalidates multiple vehicle classes at once.

  • As a Light Tank/Scout: It has excellent mobility and high-quality thermals, allowing it to get into key positions and provide invaluable intel for the team.
  • As a Tank Destroyer: The 57mm autocannon is a tool of unparalleled utility. Against other light vehicles, it’s an instant death sentence. Against MBTs, it’s a module-crippling machine. A short burst can destroy an enemy’s barrel, track, and optics, rendering them helpless for a follow-up shot from a teammate or a killing blow to the side. The high rate of fire means that precision is secondary; you can walk your shots onto a weak spot or simply overwhelm the target.
  • As an Anti-Aircraft Gun: This is its most egregious feature. The IRST system with automatic tracking and a lead indicator is a point-and-click interface for deleting aircraft. It is, without exaggeration, more effective at swatting planes and helicopters from the sky than many dedicated SPAA vehicles, all while being a vastly more capable anti-tank platform.

A vehicle that can perform all three of these roles at such a high level of proficiency is not just “good”; it is a meta-defining force. It dictates the terms of engagement for the entire enemy team.

This brings us to your most critical point: the almost zero chance of a BR change without a major decompression. This is the crux of the entire issue. The problem isn’t just the 2S38; the problem is that the 9.0 to 11.7 Battle Rating range is a compressed, chaotic mess. Gaijin has squeezed decades of technological advancement into a tiny numerical space. The 2S38 is a symptom of this disease, not the disease itself.

Moving it to 10.7 would simply shift the problem. It would then be in constant uptiers against top-tier MBTs, where its gun would be less effective, but its anti-air and support capabilities would still be invaluable. Moving it down to 10.0, as some argue, would be an act of catastrophic imbalance that would make the 9.0-9.3 bracket completely unplayable. So, it sits at 10.3, a deeply uncomfortable but stable compromise. It’s a BR where it can be killed by a wide range of opponents, but where its own strengths are potent enough to make it a constant, oppressive threat.

The only real solution, as you alluded to, is a full-scale BR decompression. The BR ceiling needs to be raised to 13.0, or even 14.0, and every single vehicle from 8.0 upwards needs to be re-evaluated and given its own space. This would allow for a more granular and logical progression, where the technological gaps between vehicles are properly represented by their Battle Rating. In such a world, the 2S38 might find a home at 11.0 or 11.3, where it would face opponents that are its true contemporaries, and the vehicles below it would be safe from its multi-role tyranny.

But until that day comes—and there is little indication that it will be anytime soon—you are absolutely correct. The 2S38 will stay at 10.3. It is effective, it is a cornerstone of the Russian lineup at that tier, and its performance statistics are likely muddied enough by the “premium effect” for Gaijin to justify leaving it alone. Your argument isn’t just an opinion; it’s a clear-eyed analysis of the game’s design limitations. The rest is just noise.

great job for pointing that out, was my exact thought when i saw this topic

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Of course. To argue that a vehicle as controversial as the 2S38 should be at 10.0, and not a step higher, requires looking past the highlight reels and focusing on the brutal, unforgiving reality of the top-tier meta. The argument to keep it far away from 11.0 isn’t a defense of the vehicle’s power, but rather a cold, hard analysis of its profound and crippling limitations in an environment it was never designed to fight in. Placing the 2S38 at 11.0 would be the equivalent of taking a finely-honed scalpel designed for specific, delicate work and trying to use it as a sledgehammer to break concrete—it would shatter instantly, its intended strengths rendered completely irrelevant.

First and foremost, any discussion of an 11.0 Battle Rating must begin with a clear understanding of what that ecosystem entails. This is the domain of the Leopard 2A7V, the M1A2 SEPv2, the T-80BVM, and the Strv 122. These are vehicles with advanced composite armor arrays and ERA packages that can shrug off rounds with over 600mm of penetration. They fire APFSDS rounds like DM53 and M829A2 that are fast, flat-shooting, and can punch through nearly a meter of steel. The air is filled with Ka-52s and Apaches firing long-range, fire-and-forget missiles from behind cover, and supersonic jets dropping laser-guided bombs from altitudes where they are untouchable by cannon-based SPAA. To suggest the 2S38 belongs here is to fundamentally misunderstand the scale of this threat.

The 57mm cannon, the source of so much frustration at lower tiers, becomes a peashooter at 11.0. Its APFSDS round, with its ~225mm of penetration, is functionally useless against the frontal aspect of any top-tier MBT. It cannot penetrate the turret, it cannot penetrate the upper plate, and it often cannot even penetrate the lower plate. Its entire anti-tank capability would be relegated to desperate, high-risk flanking maneuvers where it would have to expose itself to get a shot at a side profile. Even then, the post-penetration damage is so anemic that it would require multiple, perfectly placed shots to disable, let alone kill, an opponent. While this is happening, the MBT it is flanking can simply turn its turret and erase the 2S38 from existence with a single click. The 2S38’s gun is a bully’s weapon; it’s incredibly effective when it can punch down on less armored targets, but it is completely and utterly outclassed when it has to punch up.

Furthermore, its much-vaunted anti-aircraft capability becomes a severe liability at 11.0. The IRST system is a fantastic point-defense weapon, but that is all it is. It is a short-range system. At top tier, the primary aerial threats are not jets making low-altitude gun runs; they are helicopters and drones launching missiles from 8-12 kilometers away. The 2S38 has absolutely no way to counter this. It can sit there and watch the missile trail approach, completely helpless. It would be a free kill for any competent pilot. Its role as an SPAA is only effective against opponents who make the mistake of getting close. At 11.0, no one makes that mistake. It would be a less effective anti-air platform than even the dedicated gun SPAAs like the Gepard, which at least have a search radar to provide early warning.

Finally, and most critically, the 2S38 is a glass cannon with an emphasis on “glass.” Its armor is non-existent. At 11.0, it would not just be vulnerable to main battle tank rounds; it would be vulnerable to everything. The 30mm and 40mm autocannons on enemy IFVs like the Puma and CV90 would shred it from any angle. Even a burst from a .50 caliber machine gun could penetrate its weaker sections. It is a massive, unsloped box that is trivial to hit. The idea that its “unmanned turret” provides survivability is a myth when any penetrating hit to the hull—which is where every competent player aims—will detonate its massive ammunition rack for a catastrophic one-shot kill.

In conclusion, moving the 2S38 to 11.0 would be a catastrophic error in judgment that ignores every single one of its fundamental design flaws. It would be a vehicle with a gun that can’t penetrate its targets, an anti-air system that can’t reach its targets, and armor that can’t protect it from anything. It would be a rolling coffin, a free kill for every other vehicle in the match. Its entire playstyle is predicated on being able to leverage its high-rate-of-fire cannon against targets it can actually damage. By placing it at 11.0, you remove that capability entirely, leaving it with nothing. The argument for a 10.0 BR is not about making it stronger; it’s about placing it at the absolute ceiling of its effectiveness, a bracket where its strengths are still relevant but are balanced by its paper-thin armor and the presence of more capable MBTs. Pushing it any higher would be to delete the vehicle from the game in all but name.

Seriously, stop using Ai

Those tanks are still 1.7 above it can’t see them with an 11.0 or 11.3 lineup.

Which it won’t face because it’s soviet

No it doesn’t.

And? Not it’s primary role. That’s just icing

So like every single other light tank in the game?

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Holy wall of text.

Im sorry, but almost this entire argument is invalidated by the US not receiving buffs because “the US has skill issues so it shouldn’t have the Turret Basket Removed” or “M833 added” or so on and so forth.

Also. That’s a wall of text dude. Not to be rude but there is NO way that was all hand typed in the short time frame I gave you. So now not only is it long, but odds are AI supplemented or written entirely, which is worse.

2s38 survivability relies in the crewless turret, at hull down this thing its a menace, the ammo beñt its kinda thin so sometimes your sabots rounds hit the turret without dmg or only destroy the gun but no ammo rack.

It can literally pen all MBTs frontally what are you talking about lmao, that plus a high fire rate plus he-vt and air tracking.

Often I get killed from 1-2 shots to the LFP, neck shots can easily disable tanks.

Such a noob, what can you expect from someone that takes shortcuts with premiums instead of grinding skill.

Forum mods should shut this down. Nothing but slop ai making a hollow argument for this bot of person. If you can’t make a post without using ai to make it for you. Just don’t bother. Save yourself the humiliation

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