i dont hate em and combat them well. but to look at it objectively it is under BRd .
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how do you think the cv9040c is the same has the 2s38 ?
no idea but you keep conversing im done here, ive got some merkavas to spade
So 2S38 can bounce more times per minute cause it’s blinding itself giving its position away.
Damage isn’t based on burst mass of tanks, they’re not aircraft.
Both are auto-lights with post 150mm penning rounds that pen the same weakspots of tanks.
And until Abrams and Type 90 turret rings are fixed, it’s going to stay that way.
just read this again
HSTV-L is quite strong at 11.3, and 2S38 shouldn’t go above 10.3.
HSTV-L has a much better dart (penetration and post pen are much higher), is incredibly mobile, better armored, no detailed modules, and has 15-17 degrees of gun depression, and bounces rounds quite often when used correctly.
numerically speaking the 2s38 has the advantage due to having not much worse pen for the round and volume of fire. the 2s38 can effectively damage modules, crew or both faster than a HSTVL, not only taht its at a far lower BR and has far higher spall. the fact you see more 2s38s in top tier than HSTVLs says a lot about that.
i feel like hes just trying to get a rise now.
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If turret rotation mattered, T-80U would be 11.0 instead of 11.3.
If commander thermals mattered, T-80s in general would be a lower BR.
If ammo types mattered… Abrams would be the highest BR tank in the game.
And for anti-tank role, over 20 rounds of first-stage is more than enough.
Such a sized first stage only matters for anti-air.
@An_Pigeon
If you feel civil discussions are to get a rise, I implore you talk to more people.
I say this as an introverted person myself that converses with a diverse amount of people in order to stay in-tune with social understanding.
the spall (aka post pen) on the hstvl is one of the worst for a dart period , ill try find the video comparisson for them if youd like. neither the armour of these tanks matters, the mass of the 2s38 until very recently allowed for higher survivibality.
and again the 2s38 is putting down more rounds, that if youre not shooting directly into the UFP will take out modules on the enemy, breaches, barrels, tracks, subsequently crew then kill. its not just one round and done. while the 2s38 can also do that very effectively as well.
Spalling isn’t all post-pen, and spalling is based on the mass of the penetrator.
Post-pen is round fragmentation and armor spalling.
believe me i have a better understanding of social interactions friend than you are assuming at all, your responses are genuinely either ignoring facts and points others are making, as earlier with what you commented back about the BMP3 is the type 89.
This shows a total disregard for what people are actually responding to you with, as youre either choosing to not read it correctly and change what is said, or are doing it intentionally.
as your response to meki shows as well.
the mass of the penetrator yes, which has the effect of spalling which in warthunder is what it corrolates to…
now rather than this back and forth seeing as we cant come to some formal agreement, lets stop while were ahead? respectfully youve made your points and me mine
@An_Pigeon
I never ignore anything.
Choosing not to respond to facts because I said them myself or otherwise didn’t bring them up is just me acknowledging those facts.
However, if the facts are not relevant to the argument they’re not relevant.
It’s why I’ll never bring up proxy rounds on non-SPAA cause that’s not how non-SPAA are ever balanced.
if all those things don’t mater the 2s38,pt76-57,hstvl could all just go to 11.3
one aspect does not dictate the BR but combine them in one vehicle and you get a well performing vehicle that deserves a high BR
False equivalence fallacy.
PT-76-57 has an APHE only top round, no thermals, is slower…
HSTVL is the fastest unlockable tank in the game that accelerates at double-speed over Begleit and 2S38.
2S38 is a Begleit-speed light tank with an APFSDS projectile, laser range finder, and thermals.
The primary reason that 2S38 is 10.x over 9.3 is due that APFSDS round and a tiny bit to do with thermal generation and armor geometry.
No thanks, I’ve played the tank on my own and haven’t had an issue with spall, it’s an auto light so it’s hard to one tap tanks (but it’s more than doable). Obviously a 75mm APFSDS won’t spall as much as 105 or 120mm, but you also reload 4 times every time a Leopard reloads once.
@AlvisWisla already said this, but it literally doesn’t matter. By the time any MBT can react to you, you can get off 2-3 rounds which is more than enough to disable/kill anything. 2S38 has to deal with low spalling, which can sometimes kill you.
.
This is a lie. HSTV-L can be played hulldown incredibly effectively. You can make yourself almost immune to sabot rounds when using proper gun depression as you have 2 crew members in the hull, and a low profile turret.
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you literally just said ammo types do not mater
“If ammo types mattered… Abrams would be the highest BR tank in the game”
and that the cv9040c is much slower than a 2s38 is also just ignored so that does not seam to mater either
Abrams has 6+ ammo types available to it.
It doesn’t make it better than Leopard 2A7V.
the 2s38 spalling is so low that it can and consistently one taps top tier, talking 11.7 tanks frontally… the spalling on the 2s38 is not low at all for the size of the penetrator.
2 the sheer amount of rounds it can fire in comparisson the hstvl is exactly why im saying it should go UP in BR, not to 11.0, 10.7 area for most of these would be adequate to what they actually are, 10.0 is severly under BRd for almost every single IFV ive mentioned, which again everyone seems to ignored.
The armour as well on the HSTVL has yet to bounce any of the rounds ive fired from the challanger 1s and 2s. the type90s, the dm43 etc etc.
to gague its effective armour on a light isnt a fair metric