I see the 2s38 at 11.7, I think it would be fine at 11.0-11.3, because then it can be played as an IFV should, flanking and using side shots, not penetrating the front of mbts
Tf, how? Like actually how? What does the HSTV-L have that makes it deserve to be at 11.3 - a full 1.3 BR higher than the 2S38. What does the HSTV-L have that makes it deserve to me at the same BR as the OTOMATIC?
I mean the 2S38 gets:
- ESS
- LWS
- Bulldozer/Self-Entrenchment equipment
- More armor than both the HSTV-L and the OTOMATIC
- 7.57% faster forward speed than OTOMATIC
- 3.0x the reload speed than the HSTV-L
- Same reload as the OTOMATIC
- More vertical guidance than the OTOMATIC and HSTV-L
- 1.64x the ammo of the OTOMATIC
- 5.69x the ammo of the HSTV-L
- Slightly faster turret rotation than the HSTV-L (5.26%)
- Gets proxy rounds (HSTV-L does not)
- Gets a 7.62mm co-ax (OTOMATIC does not)
The OTOMATIC gets:
- Faster turret rotation (16.67%)
- Gets proxy rounds (HSTV-L does not)
- Better pen APFSDS than HSTV-L (by 12.68%)
- Gets a radar (HSTV-L and 2S38 do not)
- 3.14x the reverse speed of 2S38, 2.64x the reverse of HSTV-L
HSTV-L gets:
- 18.31% more forward speed, 19.05% more reverse speed
- Better pen APFSDS than 2S38 by (22.67%)
- Gets a 7.62mm co-ax (OTOMATIC does not)
How does any of this suggest the 2S38 should be 1.3 BR lower than both the OTOMATIC and the HSTV-L?
1 Like
2S38.
The things that don’t impact BR at all: ESS, Bulldozer, reload at HSTV-L or less rate, vertical guidance, ammo count above 20, turret speed above 20 degpersec, coax, laser warning system, proxy rounds in a vehicle with APFSDS.
Of the things you listed, only speed impacts the BR.
Why does the reload not impact anything - especially when the 2S38 can shoot 3 times in the time the HSTV-L gets to shoot once - so that should move it up in BR.
The 2S38 can also cause much more damage despite the lower pen because it can shoot 3 times in 1.5, which should move it up in BR.
The 2S38 can also do AA abilities (it was designed for that yet its a light tank in game for some reason) due to its proxy rounds and vertical guidance, so that should move it up in BR.
The 2S38 can respond to threats quicker due to the faster turret rotation speed, which should move it up in BR.
The 2S38 can escape situations easier due to the ESS if its smoke grenades run out, which should move it up in BR.
The 2S38 hold much more ammo than the HSTV-L and OTOMATIC, meaning it can be in action longer than both, meaning it should move up in BR.
The 2S38 has armor that can stop high caliber co-ax’s than the HSTV-L, which should move it up in BR.
How exactly do those factors not matter if they make very real performance changes in game?
2 Likes
Strf 9040C, the closest analogue to 2S38, is also 10.0 with a similar fire rate, speed, and similar penning dart against MBTs.
2S38’s anti-air capability is 9.3, which doesn’t impact its BR since 2S38 is 10.0, above 9.3. 2S38 is already moved up beyond its anti-air capabilities.
Thermals see through ESS.
HSTV-L & especially OTOMATIC pen far more.
HSTV-L is also faster, smaller, and has more armor than 2S38. Superior optics for better close-range fighting as well.
The problem isn’t with a single s238.
The problem is with the swarms of them that appear.
Someone on reddit put it perfectly, it’s like trying to shoot wasps with a 9mm, although it’s more like shooting them with a bolt action rifle.
I am surprised anyone still takes some of the regular clowns in this thread seriously who pop up in every thread related to russian vehicles and unironically think the joke that is the Otomatic at 11.3 is in the same league as the 2S38.
Even for SPAA duties it is worse because the shells of the Otomatic are noticably slower than the ones of the 2S38 and you will only be able to hit level 20s in Ka-50s hovering at 4km+.
7 Likes
HSTV-L does not even come close to being as broken as 2S38
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dunno why so many are defending these things on here. the 2s38 is up there with broken af stuff at stupid BRs like the F5C before it was 11.0, the now F104 uncontested at 9.3 and demolishing the entire BR bracket, the F8U2 also dominating the entire bracket.
While the 2s38 imo should be 10.7 or 11.0, theres also a plethora of other vehicles being left totally in the dark at random or borked brs.
otomatic at 11.3 is it???
British hunter F6 being 9.7 while the objectively better F58 is the same BR.
F104, mig 19, arriete etc all being 9.3 also being some of the most busted for BR jets.
or the whole thing with the mk3 chieftain being the same BR as the Mk5 while being a slower, albiet slightly, worse tank.
we need to focus not on bias or complaining. but trying to get gaijin to fix the absolute monumentous amount of things either over Brd or completely under BRd.
like now the mig15s, sabers etc what can a 7.0 me262 even do to anyof that ? heck even most other 8.0s cant touch them at all.
Rant over.
2 Likes
no
Next request
buddy if the 2S38 is 11.7 the the leo 2a7v is 14.0
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So Strf 9040C and 2S38 to 11.0, HSTVL to 12.0, Begleit to 10.0/10.3, PUMA to 10.3, SPIKE PUMA to 11.x… seems like a fair balance plan.
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wow, and i thought it couldn’t get more absurd ;)
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did you mean LVKV variant compared to the 2s38?
Because the C has no tracking for air, no elevation to target air, has the best apfsds for cv90 but still lacking 65 ish mm of flat pen, at a higher cost per round compared to 2S38 (iirc) -
the LVKV misses this apfsds, so stuck with 140 so 95 mm less flat pen, get tracking + radar, but stab cuts off at 35-ish km/h. Both have inferior HE-VT;
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HSTV-L, fast, insane gun depression, better APFSDS, but nothing special, even worse then M735;
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Bagel, really. APBC round that is on par with the APHEBC round on the 2S35, but this has HE filler. no tracking and a iTOW with 630mm pen, Bagel has great mobility but that is matched or bettered by MBT’s
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PUMA 10.3 really, with all the flaws still present, armor, AC accuracy, no actual AT capability, MUSS not working etc. it’s a fast well armored IFV, nothing more. JSTF variant has same flaws, with gimped Spikes which fail to score a kill most of the time.
all other ifv’s at 10.0-3 have slightly worse AC, but fire TOW 2B with top attack (8-10 rounds), or 2S25(M) which fire MBT rounds 3BM42(6) at lower BR’s, and gun launched ATGM regular or tandem.
Moving 2S38 to 10.0 was a step in the right direction, USSR has a 10.3 10.7 line up so… still room for improvement.
Problem is that as mentioned this is a very prolific vehicles which was sold in large numbers to a large variety of players, this results in a less then accurate picture about the vehicles performance.
If you are unlucky to meet capable experienced players in the 2S38, they will wreck your day, while others meet the “I buy myself into top-tier matches” players who sit in the open and get clapped from across the map.
4 Likes
depends how they would decompress the MBTs as well, like a 10.3 challanger mk3 with L26A1 absolutely shreds any and all 9.3s, hell even most 9.7s.
That isnt even touching abrams, T80s, leo2a4s etc.
what i do want to see, is the lightly armoured cold war MBTs, the leo1a1a5s etc, not to see 2s38.
Objectively the HSTVL firepower wise is worse than teh 2s38 due to the mass they output, however, it being less than half the size and far more mobile makes up for it, i dont think the HSTVL should be lower than 11.7, but the 2S28 and the STRFs are IMO just too low. the HSTVL shouldnt go down, and i hate when people claim that it should. the issue though isnt that the HSTVL is over or under BRd, its that the other autocannon users such as the BMP3 for example, bmp2m, 2s38 etc are under BRd, and the puma tbh is pathetic though, its dart has less pen than the 9.0 apds on the Type 89.
i dont want one nation or another to get hit with a Br change, i want it balanced finally.
the type 89, bmp3, bagliet, 2s38. STRFs are absolutely absurd where they sit now.
2S38 is lower mass and worse pen.
My stance is 2S38 to 10.3 as stated in other posts.
Strf 9040C could probably join it now.
1 Like
the 2s38 and Bill shouldnt be seeing 9.3s… the BMP3 as well should go up that thing is insanely busted
also HSTVL has 90.8 KG volume of fire per minute
the 2S38 has 114KG volume per minute of fire rate. the shell itself per shell is lower mass, but what im meaning is the over all mass its putting down range is far supperior, it can fire 120 rounds a minute while the HSTVL can only do 40 per minute.
the issue isnt the HSTVL has to go down, the issue is the 2s38 should be going up, no 9.0, 9.3 or even most 9.7s cant take more than one of those rounds, never mind them being fired at ever half second,
They can’t do as much against 9.3s as you think they can.
BMP-3 can’t go up as its equal is 9.0 as well.
As for “taking rounds”… that just goes to the survivability onion.
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the BMP3 i have, and actively use in an 11.3 lineup it is extremely under BRd man, all of these auto loading high fire rate, missile launching, light IFVs are absolute monsters in game.
the strf Bill as an example, tow 2Bs, 143 pen dart 0.2 reload rate. while im aware the reload for the first stage is slow, that thing can kill almost every single thing in a single burst, and can see 9.0…
the 2s38 can and does puncture holes through abrams, challanger 2s, heck even the chinese mbts at 10.7 get shredded by it and the bill.
the only reason the 2s38 isnt sitting at 10.7 is because it got bought en mass by tens of thousands of people, same as the BMP2M it as well is busted.
and the survivability onion ? im sorry but a challanger 2 should not get one tapped by a 2s38 frontally.
this is the issue, with it. they are under BR’d vehicle speaking wise. and eventually they will get changed, as youve seen right now theyre more focused on churning things out, than fixing what we have.
I actively used a Strv 74 in my 10.0 Swedish lineup.
Personal preference does not equate to something being under-BR’d.
Yes, 2S38 can hit the same exact weakspots that Strv 9040C can… welcome to auto-lights.
General awareness and headphones prevent you from dying.
I’ve died to so few 2S38s that my KDR against that specific tank is in the high double digits.
I stock grinded M1A2 SEP during the 2S38’s launch cause they are so easy to frag.
The reason why 2S38 and Strv 9040C aren’t 10.7 and will never be 10.7 is cause all the MBTs are the BRs they are, and the other auto-lights in War Thunder can’t move up as easily.
1 Like
the 2s28 is a much better cv9040c despite sitting at the same br
faster turret rotation huge autorack (28 for the cv90) more pen autotrack for planes
can point the gun higher up to kill planes ,can swim, is much more agile
oh and the 2s38 has commander thermals
has way more ammo types to choose from
the only thing the cv9040 has is being 50 call prof
3 Likes