Lets agree to disagree.
In SIM 10_2 HSTL-V and 2S38 are facing each other and the 2S38 are winning decisively. Probably because the Gen3 and supperior RoF. I had numerous occasion when I shot 2S38 and they just shoot back.
They can shoot down scout UAVs which are essential tool in SIM.
They can mop floor with any light vehicle and any MBT from a side.
Well iaw your rule the WZ305 should have same BR like ZSU-57. However WZ305 is whole 1BR up just because of the proxy fused shell.
Winning is down to team skill above all else, and you cannot know who’s winning more to begin with since that info is classified.
I will agree to disagree on our differing perspectives regarding HSTV-L & 2S38 of course.
As for WZ305, the proxy fuse makes the anti-air role drastically superior to the anti-tank role of ZSU-57-2 hence the BR; in-line with my statement.
Did I say something about win rates ?
Just to be sure where is you perspective about HSTLV comes from? Since you don’t have it. I can at least test drive 2S38.
It does not have any logic but whatever.
The 4 levels of tank protection. Visibility, maneuverability, armor, and survivability.
Size, speed, weapons. In the context of anti-tank, since it’s clear 2S38 is 10.0 exclusively because of its anti-tank capability, similarly in the HSTV-L’s case.
Otherwise I’d compare 2S38 to an anti-air system if it didn’t have APFSDS.
While I have not played HSTV-L, partially due to my slight dislike of its design thus low-priority in acquisition, it is my 2nd to last end of the line vehicle to acquire. 3rd to last if M1A1 HC wasn’t moved passed M60 TTS. ADATS will be my last.
I can test drive it as well as take into account its hard capabilities & maneuvers.
While I’m more of the opinion HSTV-L is 11.0, it’s obvious players utilize its small size to flank far easier than I would expect of the enemy’s skill level, thus accept its 11.3 BR position.
2S38 doesn’t have the same type of enemy players, nor controllers of the vehicle.
HSTV-L is clearly strong, and its BR is a reflection of that.
2S38 is strong, and less than that of HSTV-L. 2S38 is superior to HSTV-L against planes, but 2S38 is better than every MBT against aircraft, as is VEAK & Gepard.
M3A3 Bradley is better against aircraft than HSTV-L.
I am also terrible at explaining things, including processes. So I will certainly forget to mention one or multiple factors I take into account.
The nuke factor… I haven’t drawn a certainty on whether I should form one. I have obtained two nukes thus far, M18 and Type 96AP. 2S38 came 3 points close on Pradesh, and would’ve been my first nuke if it was obtained; however it was never remotely achieved again, especially after its BR change to 10.0.
Zero 2S38s have achieved nukes against or within my matches as well, and I’ve first hand witnessed over 30 nukes since the feature has been introduced. I stopped accurately counting after 20.
The same can be said for HSTV-L or most light tanks even. My M18 nuke is more of a fluke than a consistency. Heavy tanks & medium tanks seem to be the primary methods players use to get nukes.
But as I said, I’m unsure if this should be a serious factor in determining power of a vehicle. You cannot compare separate players either, as that introduces player skill factor which ruins data.
There’s more to vehicles than fire rate and speed.
Wiesel 1A4 is 7.3 partially because it’s tiny.
I don’t know about you, but I think that 1.3 BR (four steps) shows there’s a massive performance difference between two vehicles. Take this as an example:
It’s very clear that 2A4 is objectively much better than A1A1 in each and every measurable metric.
On the other hand, HSTV-L still has fair share of disadvantages when compared to 2S38. Yes, mobility and dart are better, but limited ammo capacity, worse reload, thermals, etc. are all things that should be considered.
Also, being able to defend yourself at least decently from both ground and air targets is often overlooked.
No, HSTV-L’s only anti-tank disadvantage is gen 1 thermals. However, its meta optics make up for that.
Everything else, every single thing, HSTV-L is superior to 2S38 on for anti-tank.
26 rounds is difficult, and people still learned trigger discipline on aircraft with limited ammo supply.
As for Leopard 2A4 & Leopard A1A1 L/44 & 1A5, a 1 BR difference, and the only ammunition change is DM23.
2A4 becomes faster, more armored, & a boost to turret mechanics… that’s it. Those are the primary differences.
Yes, I know you stated A1A1, however the apt comparison is the two I mentioned.
Seemingly minor changes can have major consequences.
Smallest light tank in WT that can pen more than 300mm of angled steel using a two-plane stabilized gun that can if needed fire faster in a panic.
The 2S38 should almost certainly go up in BR, but that’s the same for practically all the modern light vehicle’s.
For some reason, the super modern light vehicles are so downtiered that they just lolpen most main MBT’s at their tier, acting as TD’s despite their designation as lights. Doesn’t help the damage models are so skewiffy with them too.
The Type 16, WMA/PTL, CV 90105, M1128, 2S38 etc.
So many ppl crying cose of slow autoloader turd, and it radar just got nerfed and you cant lock in any air target over 3km
You can’t say this as that’s exactly what you’ve done in every other post on this thread.
Interesting how the turret lost 10% coverage seemingly out of nowhere. Was there a recent update the changed the RELIKT layout on the turret?
So with this quote, you are agreeing then that the Abrams is significantly weaker than the BVM as all of the BVMs weaknesses are about the same as only the Abrams historically inaccurate turret ring, not including all the other weaknesses it has.
Don’t know why you’re bringing up a British round now like it means anything while at the same time also ignoring the very obvious holes in the middle that will just eat rounds resulting in a nonpen if you have more than 30 ping.
Shell velocity and explosive mass matters, which the 2s38 has higher velocity than the OTOMATIC. This means it has a larger effective range than the OTOMATIC. Meanwhile the VEAK and M247 struggle to hit anything that isn’t a helicopter past 2km.
It’s antiair performance is better than the Lvkv 9040C and I’d even argue it’s better than the OTOMATIC.
It however does not increase it’s antiair capability past that of it’s anti tank ability. Unless you decide to contradict yourself on your early statement.
That figures, I recognized the same blatant rejection of logic and factual information seemingly just to argue for the sake of arguing. Kinda sad they had to rename themselves or use an alt.
I’ve been wondering for awhile now just how much smaller the HSTVL is compared to the 2s38 and it turns out, not by a whole lot (who would have guess you were lying on the internet).
The HSTVL is:
Length: 5.92
Length with gun forward: 8.53m
Width: 2.79m
Height: 2.41m
The 2S38 is:
Length: 7.2m
Length with gun forward: 7.8m
Width: 3.23m
Height: 2.4m
So “significantly smaller” means 18inches thinner with the same height and shorter length not including the gun though because otherwise it’d be longer.
Having 3x slower fire rate and limited ammo capacity is actually something to be worried about. Considering that getting on a flank should be the goal of both of those vehicles, you can’t deny the difference in fire rate there, especially if you encounter multiple tanks side-on.
Firing 12 vs 4 rounds in the same time period from the side is a big deal, considering spalling will be pretty limited on both of those rounds.
Only difference is that those aircraft with limited ammo supply will typically have devastating rounds, while HSTV-L’s 75mm dart is far from being that.
First of all, why should you compare 2A4 to L/44 or 1A5, when they are only 3 BR steps below, not 4 ? Makes no sense to me buddy.
Second of all, 1A5 actually has 105mm gun to begin with, which will result in less spalling.
2A4 becomes much faster, much more armored and have much better gun handling, while also getting better reload speed and better ammo compartmentalization.
Looks like a no contest to me.
Another interesting comparison would be T-80B (10.3) vs T-62M-1 (9.0).
With former having better armor, round, gun handling, reload, thermals, mobility, optics, etc. it’s pretty clear there’s no contest between those two.
So you are theory crafting, that is all I need to know.
There is an old joke:
Do you know what is the difference between theory and practice ?
Theoretically none.
I agree, this thing is killing lobbies it needs to move up a full BR. Multiple people bring them out decimating teams its ridiculous.
I play the PUMA and believe it don’t do well against tanks like the T-80BVM, Challeger, M1 tanks, ZT99 in front. On paper the PUMA looks impressieve but go against tanks on 11.3 and 11.7 that is finish at all. The PUMA works well against most tanks from the side and low flying jets and helicopters. The PUMA was 9.3 and they already increase do BR 10. If you can’t kill the PUMA because it has armor then learn to fight it noob.
congratz you figured out the only way to kill mbt’s with the puma
Jokes aside saying puma works well vs tank from the side is sad
i could take the bmp2 in br 10.0 vs the same tanks as puma and would have way more succes
Shooting tanks like t72av t80b and any russian tank with side armor like k1 or what ever is more then a gamble
English lesson: ~30% is less than 40%. Thus nothing was lost.
So you get non-pens shooting Abrams tanks turret rings all the time? Cause I don’t.
CQB maps make the weaknesses of Abrams & BVM rather equal.
I’ve never struggled to hit jets at 3.2km using VEAK…
And since OTOMATIC’s anti-air performance has it sit around 9.7 - 10.0, 2S38 is balanced.
Not sure why you’re so determined to defend your precious 2S38.
@Steelbeast
No, I’m not theory crafting. I’ve already used similar vehicles to HSTV-L, and even smaller vehicles.
@MotorolaCRO
HSTV-L’s round is ammo rack in first shot, 2nd shot if aim was screwed up.
You can tell people haven’t played either of these.
2S38 isn’t some monster, and HSTV-L is still drastically superior to it.
Not sure why people are propaganda posting for 2S38.
You surely know this by playing exactly 0 games in it, so you’re speaking from experience, right ?
Not four BR steps superior, that’s the point.
Also, you still haven’t answered me why you took 1A5 instead of A1A1 in the comparison against 2A4 ?
Test drive allows you to test ammo racking on various 0.15 chance tanks, which is the most common chance of tank you’ll come across.
HSTV-L is that superior IMO. I may dislike Spookston’s attitude on nearly everything, but he’s correct on HSTV-L’s power.
Test drive varies greatly from live gameplay in that regard. I’ve never had ammo blacking out and going to the void in test drive, while in game it happens commonly.
Also, basically the same shots in game can produce various results, for example, you can shoot at the same spot, from same range/angle and one time ammo will go black, while other time will go orange/red. That being said, I haven’t seen more inconsistent modules than fuel tanks and ammo, one of the nastier bugs out there.
It isn’t in my opinion.
I guess this is agree to disagree type of situation.