mention 30.
And expending the br range helps that. If it goes from 14.0 to 15.0, do you expect everything to stay?
Br changes would still happen. It will just be more controversial since the br change will have a larger impact.
You seem to want a quick solution that masks the problem rather than a slower one that actually fixes it.
As written in locked parallel thread (with a reasonable OP with 16 likes) the main factor why the “BR 0.7 spread” topic pops us frequently is this:
Gaijins claims that vehicles facing vehicles (in the same class) with a 1.0 higher BR would have a realistic fighting chance
This claim is obviously flat wrong as the player skill is way more decisive - so the player in the higher BR vehicle needs less experience to beat a more experienced player in the lower BR - and as soon as both have the same experience level the guy in the lower BR vehicle has no chance.
Something to think about:
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The longer you think about buzzwords like decompression, balancing or powercreep and the longer you play wt you might start to realize that nothing in this game is there by accident.
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I mean gaijin is not nearly as stupid as many guys think - i would even claim that they are actually way smarter than any forum participant just because they can work with millions of user data collected in more than 10 years.
Just ask your self what is more likely:
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BRs are set based on plain average user performance and are determined by statistic nerds within gaijin whilst gaijin itself pretends that their goal would be a fair and balanced game play.
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BRs are mainly set in order to fulfil economic goals (like support sales of premium vehicles) or as steering tools for player behaviour (and player progress) whilst the word “balancing” has a totally different meaning for gaijin as their goal is not to provide a fair & balanced game play - and the main tool for balancing and steering is the MM.
Regarding queue times:
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Most guys think that queue times would be a main decisive factor for player satisfaction in gaijin’s view on things - this is imho correct as toddlers & kids with ADHD might lose interest if they have to wait for too long. Keeping queue times short makes economic sense for gaijin as those kids are their main target customers and cash-cows for gaijin.
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If you take a step back and try to look at the whole picture you might agree that queue times in/on less populated modes or servers are totally irrelevant - simply because the game is optimized to cater the needs of the above mentioned minors in actually populated game modes playing on populated servers.
Why gaijin won’t implement any substantial changes:
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The main goal of the actual BR policy (together with the way more decisive impact of the MM) is to keep less experienced players trapped in the hamster wheel called grind by creating the “dominating in a full downtier whilst being borderline useless in a full uptier” effect. So by creating the illusion that with the more powerful vehicle just 1 BR higher they would be able to dominate lobbies they stay attached and keep spending money.
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In addition the MM and the BR are used to create the mix of success and artificial drawbacks to keep the players in the "flow zone" which actually increases the player commitment - you will find various studies confirming this.
So implementing a fair and balanced game play is from an economic perspective financial suicide for gaijin just because:
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New players would require actual skill to play the game which creates entry barriers by definition. In the current state you can play the game (and score) without any clue if you sit in the “right” vehicle or use the known grinding strategies like base bombing.
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Subsequently the progress of new players would be slower which reduces their purchases just by definition. Any studies regarding player behavior show depending on age clear data that player retention is (especially for minors) is a limited resource. That’s why you can unlock a new air TT up to Rank III/-IV in an afternoon - the main goal is clear: Help new players as much as possible to get as fast as possible in viewing range of the shiny (and highly profitable) jets.
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The mid- to long term players will benefit as they can use their actual skill and gained experience. They won’t face the risk to get slammed by a missile fired by a 12 year old kid across the map. What most players forget: Long-term players are the absolute minority and are not really useful as customers as they have invested either a hell of time or money - or both.
As a conclusion:
I won’t bet any money on any substantial changes.
Have a good one!
Final remarks:
- Some posts look like blind men are talking about colors. I kindly ask you to continue with this, these posts have an extremely high entertaining factor.
- A short reminder: Don’t feed the trolls.
2 Likes
Look, while i agree with everything…
Think something.
The only reason to play Random battles (any mode) is grind.
If you want balance etc. you can always play customs.
Don’t get me wrong , and personally i support that something needs to be done with the MM (the last 12 years at least) .
But , if you didn’t have to grind… would you play Randoms or Customs?
And that’s the answer of why they won’t do anything.
You see the playerbase (me too) are so fixated in grind, that we forget that we can make matches that we like…
how?
The BRs remain unchanged. we would still have 1.0 to 12.0 (as of right now)
So lets take the Tiger II as an example.
Right now it meets 5.7-7.7
In a 0.7MM it will meet 6.0 to 7.3
5.7 and 7.7 do not disappear, they are just no longer capable of meeting the Tiger II and other 6.7 vehicles.
What would this do? Well first of no 5.7 would need to face the Tiger II and the Tiger II woulkd not meet 7.7
What else would happen? Well the Tiger II would not need to be balanced around the fact that it has to be strong enough to face 7.7 while also not be too strong to face 5.7. Meaning, if the Tiger II is too strong against 6.0 it could move up to 7.0 as you would still only ever meet 7-7 instead of 8.0.
So you have more space to move vehicles around to balance them.
Lets take another example. The maus. Currently it is officially labled as “impossible to properly balance” by the devs.
Why is that? It is too strong for almost every 6.7 it faces but has no buisnes meeting 8.7 or higher.
In 0.7MM it would only meet 7.0s and 8.3s 8.3s are not too much for a maus while 7.0s can all(at least every 7.0 I have played there exists probably some that can not) deal with a Maus.
So the “impossible to balance Maus” now suddenly is easier to balance.
again you say 4<2. You ignore everything people tell you and continue on in your wrong understanding of a matter. You are appaerently fully resistant to facts
1 Like
In 1.0br spread. 1 one step change will cause a 28% cjange in what you can face.
For 0.7br spread, it will change what you can face by 40%
That is not how sets work…
There are not suddenly more vehicles you can face when you reduce the number of vehicles you can face…
Think for one moment about what you are saying.
You are saying that there are MORE vehicles between 7.0 and 8.3 than there are between 6.7 and 8.7.
I will once again explain it, this time by direct comparrison of what needs to be done if we saty in +/-1 BR to get the same result as in 0.7MM.
again. In 0.7 The Maus will no longer meet any 6.7 vehicles. To achive that in the current system we need to move the Maus to 8.0 and leave every 6.7 as is.
Now to ensure that the maus can no longer meet the curren 8.7 vehicles we need to move ALL of those up to 9.3, as the maus is now 8.0.
This in turn requires to move every vehicle starting at 8.0 by 0.7BRs increasing the max BR range to 12.7. The massive compression between 8.3 and 9.3 right now would still exist just now at 9.0 to 10.0. so to decompress that we would need another 0.7increse for the new 9.0, 9.3 and 9.7BR all causing another 0.7 Increase above them bringing the BR up to 14.0 again leaving all compressions above that theoretical new 9.7 (which after 9.0 and 9.3 have been decompressed would be 11.3) intact.
To decompress the 7.7 BR range you need to move 30-40% of all vehicles in the game up in BR and still you only fix the 7.7BR and none above it. so to decompress ever BR above 7.7 you would need to move 30-40% of all vehicles in the game multiple times, or you could change a single line of code to have the MM be 0.7 instead of 1.0 and have the same effect.
Again. The result would be identical in terms of decompression, 0.7 is just another way of getting there without requiring the same amount of work.
no. with a 1.0br spread, you can face 7 different brs.
5.0 can face 4.0, 4.3, 4.7, 5.0, 5.3, 5.7, and 6.0.
Move the vehicle up one step and you lose 4.0 and gain 6.3. That changes what you will face by 2/7.
For 0.7br spread, you will face 4.3, 4.7, 5.0, 5.3, and 5.7. Move it up one step and you lose 4.3 and gain 6.0. That is a 2/5 change.
That is the same when you apply decompression per increasing the BR range…as I have just shown above.
So your argument is “Decompression is bad”
Huh? If the max br goes up, you have more room to spread stuff out while keeping the 2/7 change for br adjustments.
yes increasing the max BR makes more room, sth Gaijin does not want as it creates gaps in BRs.
That increased room is the advantage of increasing the max BR over the 0.7MM change.
The latter part is irrelevant as demonstrated above. Decompression is the art of moving BRs out of the range of other BRs. nothing else. Compression is moving BRs into the range of other BRs.
Lets take the 7.7 example again.
Your argument is that it is better for 7.7 to be able to meet 6.7 and 8.7 because that is a larger spread.
But if we decompress 7.7 we automatically lose that as every new 8.7 vehicle would just be an old 8.0 vehicle and every new 9.0 vehicle would an old 8.3 vehicle. The goal was to remove the current 8.7 from meeting 7.7 and 7.7 from meeting the current 6.7. so every old 8.7 would need to be 9.3 otherwise you would not decompress 7.7 just shift its position with no real change. Or in simpler words: new 8.0 would now only meet old 7.0 and old 8.3(now at 9.0) vehicles. Where have we seen that before? Right in 0.7MM where 7.7 can only meet 7.0 and 8.3. So the vehicles you meet after decompression remain the same in either system.
This would also create a gap between 6.7 and 8.0 as 7.7 moved up to 8.0. This gap can be filled with overperforming old 6.7s like the tiger II without recompressing. 0.7 does the exact same thing without moving vehicles around. You could still put the Tiger II at 7.0 without it now facing any stronger opponenst than before. The reason why the Tiger II is 6.7 is because it has no buisnes meeting current 8.0, once gaijin moves the current 8.0 to 8.3 in 5 years the tiger II will soon go to 7.0.
That is why your argument makes no sense. Your argument boils down to “we need no change in the vehicles we can meet” while trying to argue that removing current vehicles of y(e.g 8.7) BR from meeting current x (e.g. 7.7) BR is needed.
If you say that the maus should continue to meet current 8.7 you could still simply move it to 8.0 in a 0.7MM.
The main goal of decompression is to make vehicles that can meet each other closer in performance. For that you need to remove vehicles from any given BR range.
Again increasing the max BR or changing the MM to 0.7 achives the same goal. The difference is not in the goal but in other aspects.
Increasing the BR allows for gaps in the BRs which can be filled down the line, but this is sth Gaijin does not want. You will still need to increase the max BR periodically
Reducing the BR spread to 0.7 in the MM does not create these holes so increasing the max BR will be required sooner than with the other variant.
But both decompress the BRs we have right now in the same way. Both allow for more percise balancing of vehicles and both reduce the amount of OP vehicles stuck at too low a BR because they can not face the foes at a theoretical higher BR.
My sole reason why I am for 0.7 is simple.
Gaijin does not want to properly decompres the BRs by increasing the max BR because it creates empty space.
In the past 7 years Gaijin has increased the max BR in ground by 0.7 once. So in the past 7 years we have had exactly 1 instance of actual decompression happening. A 0.3 increase in max BR is not decompression as I have already shown in my earlier examples, it is simply slowing down further compression.
So I simply have given up on Gaijin adding decompression via an increase of the max BR in a meaningful way and shifted to a solution that does not create the gaps Gaijin hates so much, while delivering the same in match decompression.
1 Like
If the goal is to make sure that none of the current 8.7s will face the 7.7, then your argument makes sense.
I just dont agree with that. I dont think that all current 8.7s should/need to be prevented from seeing the current 7.7s
But that is literally what decompression is
1 Like
Not for me. I think that some of the 8.7s shouldnt face the 7.7s. Not all of them.
Then you can simply move those down in BR in 0.7 same as if you moved up just those that needed it. It would still be a smaler amount of vehicles moving around
The moment you need to move a BR up while leaving some behind you would still need to increase the max BR or you just shift compression issues around instead of fixing them.
Goddamn brick.
at 0.7 matchmaking spread you will literally never see 7.7 when playing 8.7 in the first place. is that too hard to understnd?
1 Like
Sorry you cant understand what i said.
You should be sorry for gaffing around and made arguments that are too nonsensical to count as an actual arguments.
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