At which point, why is the Gepard higher then?
Its radar and gun as far as I am (correct me if im wrong) the same as the 8.3 Gepard with no stingers
So why is the Gepard with Stingers higher? If hte guns are what are OP about it, shoudlnt the Gepard at 8.3 also be higher?
Being able to lob missiles above obstacles is often a pretty overlooked feature.
well the gepard keeps being better overall even if you dont take into account the missieles, specially the search radar.
Also the missile keeps being better at medium and longer ranges, and it does have the K so it has proximity fuze.
Imp Chaparral
The Iglas are fucking garbage they have no proxy fuze at all and inaccurate which makes them completely useless.
The 35mm are infinitly better than the 23mm and the Leopard 1 chassis is much better than the Shilka too. Not to mention the awful radar it has.
No. It’s peers are the Type 93, Santal, Machbet and PGZ04 (also sucks because no proxy on the missile).
The Stormer AD should be 9.3 too but that doesn’t make the Shilka good.
Calling that ideal lead is funny. I’m sorry but the Stingers missing was your fault. You shouldn’t lead AA missiles at all at that range.
Here’s a few videos of the Stinger without the proxy fuze hitting the heli directly every time if shot from a correct anlge:
Machbet is much worse tho. No search radar + bad gun
My brother in christ i agree with the sentiment that stingers are nerfed, but why in the name of all that is sacred did you lead those missiles so darn much lol. At that ranged you should lead a third of that
I think it’s telling that everyone here has missed the actual overtiered hybrid SPAA in this bracket, the SIDAM 25 (Mistral).
It has no search RADAR of any kind, inconsistent optical tracking that’s easily spoofed by trees and clouds (even if they don’t render on your screen), similarly poor range on the main guns to the Shilka, a generally worse chassis, and it’s at a higher BR than almost all other hybrid SPAAs.
The only things it has going for it is a tiny belt of APDS that’s substantailly worse than 35mm APDS, something you’ll almost never use because the chassis is completely unsuitable for tank hunting, and marginally better missiles that still miss any incoming CAS smart enough to evade IR missiles. And a laser rangefinder, I guess.
The fact that it shares a BR with the Gepard 1A2 is laughable.
The Mistral is a better missile than the Stinger.
I personally prefer it over the shilka or the gepard
Yes, but not by enough to matter. Both are easily dodged by anyone with a working brainstem. A simple barrel roll, even on a fully loaded attacker, is enough to spoof them. They also refuse to track helicopters at medium-longer ranges.
Basically, anything that a Mistral can do, a Stinger likely can as well. On a better chassis with better guns at the same BR.
even then they still do a much better job against maneuvering target and it has a relatevely large proximity fuze so the are actually noticiable harder to doge, the only thing about the missile is that you need to let people get closer as they lack the range of the stingers.
that is the same for all ir guided missiels
The Mistral has a bigger warhead and 4m proxy fuze. The Stinger has 1m and the Igla has 0m. You have no idea easy it is to dodge an Igla even when they don’t even know they’re being shot at.
Sure the Mistral can be dodged but so can the the Strela (although harder than the Mistral) . The fact that people have to know they’re shot at makes them different to other MANPADS.
Also APDS is a huge deal when you compare it to the pathetic guns of the Stormer AD or Shilka.
Also contrast seekers for some reason.
pretty sure that the mistral is ir only
Yes but that wasn’t what my reply was about
I replied to your answer to his post.
That’s sort of my issue with them though. They’re better in situations where the enemy isn’t aware of them and just making incedental maneuvers, but if the enemy sees them coming then they’re dodged just as easily as any other missile. I don’t want an SPAA that’s better against bad players, I want one that can clear the air regardless of the skill of the players in the air.
So I’ll take the SPAA with marginally worse missiles (That are just as effective in most cases), but better guns, actual anti-tank capability, a search RADAR, and a better chassis, over one with missiles that are a bit more punishing for against middlingly skilled players.
It’s actually 2m. Still an advantage, but again, Stingers work just fine for me against the same kinda planes that Mistrals work again. AKA the blind and deaf as they fly in nice straight lines towards the map. Anyone who attempts to evade the Mistral properly and isn’t already stalled out can do so easily, comparing them to dodging Strelas is a bit of a false equivalence.
APDS is nice, but the tiny capacity severely limits it. Sure, you get an ammo box now, but it’s tedious to set up and use it constantly to refresh your supplies. The guns are admittedly better than the Shilka, but I’d still say they’re noticably worse than the Gepards, in both anti tank and AA work.
My bad I thought it was bigger.
Damage is also a big problem with the Stinger. Su-25s can sometimes tank multiple Stingers and just keep flying.
I think it’s a fair comparison. The Strela is better but also much higher in BR. It has no search radar at all, no guns and no IRCCM. When the contrast mode doesn’t want to lock the IR mode can be flared very easily and even if they do lock you can outroll them too.
True but having any APDS and having none is a difference.
True but then again the 35mm are the best all round AA guns.
If people stopped using 35mm SPAAs to farm tanks most probably would go down.
The ZSU-23-4 isn’t able to chew up MBTs the way the Gepards are able to. The ZSU-37-2 can but you don’t see people doing it as much, probably because of the giant radar that you can’t put away is a giant H.E. me sign.
Additionally the ZSUs have very slow (and in my experience inaccurate) radar and have to switch between either track or scan, the marksman also has to do that but has a far faster search rate. and Gepard has 2 radars so it can track and scan at the same time. But I still think its their anti-tank abilities that are the main reason they are higher BR. Personally I think they should lose all but their air target belts and their 40 APDS for self defense and go down.
I assume the Stormer is 10.0 as it has an IRCCM missile like the Type 93 at 9.3, but also a gun and radar… and well some armour, at least compared to the 93.
Fairly certain I can recall getting non-critical hits on Su-25s with Mistrals. It’s just the damage model being excessively tanky. Against other planes, I’ve found Stingers to be pretty consistent one shot kills, even if it only crits them at first.
Honestly, for Su-25s in particular, I tend to avoid missiles altogether if I have the option. It just paints a massive target on your head, and it’s painfully easy for them to just rocket you before you have a decent firing solution on it.
My preferred tactic is to wait for them to get close and commit to a run on something else, then light them up with guns when they’re too close to change targets. Then throw a missile at them as they retreat if the guns don’t kill them.
I rarely see people attempting to flare missiles these days. Most people seem to have learned that 90% of all IR SAMs have IRCCM, and it’s a safer bet to just outroll the missile and prioritize the thing that fired it at them.
Haven’t had much experience fighting with or against Strelas recently (Just unlocking the British/Indian one now), but I had assumed their much longer lock range and high G pull made them substantially more lethal. They should get a pseudo search feature, as IRL they had sensors all around the vehicle that passively searched for IR signatures and fed that data to the gunner. You can actually see them modeled in game, just nonfunctional. It just needs a Stormer HVM/Ozelot style search IR system.
Generally, yes, but it’s too limited to be used against air targets consistently and the platform is too poor to take it tank hunting.
My point is that the SIDAM is overall better than the Shilka M4, but not universally (I’ll take a poor search RADAR over none any day of the week), and not to such an extent that I think the SIDAM should be a higher BR.
Yes, and that’s the crux of my argument as to why it doesn’t belong at the same BR as the Gepard. The Gepard combines decent AA potential with a solid secondary role as a tank hunter when required.
The SIDAM is marginally better in one aspect of AA work (At the cost of worse guns, worse tracking and no search RADAR), and has effectively no potential for tank hunting.