I really do not see Romania or Turkey as Balkan nations, Turkey is strongly in their own category. Romania is a tougher one, falling somewhere nearer to Italy or Germany in my eyes rather than a Balkan nation.
By Balkan nations I largely just mean the successor states of Yugoslavia (Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Etc.) If nations like Greece could fit then that would be great, but i’d largely be looking at the addition of Yugoslavia and its successors first
I am perfectly fine with Post Yugoslav Nations being in the Yugoslav TT since i did not specify them in the previous post but i am still massively against Greece, Albania and Bulgaria in the Yugoslav TT for the reasons i stated before
I also did a draft of what a Yugoslav ground TT would possibly look like, i’ll add the images of what the vehicles would look like in a later date since they can be found in the Yugoslav ground TT thread on the old forum and it will take a little while to compile all of the pics and info on them
So I guess at least might be able to see F-4E Peace Icarus 2000 (AUP), F-16C Block 30, F-16C Block 50, Mirage 2000EG, Mirage 2000-5F Mk.2 in rank VIII and F-16C Block 52+ in rank IX at Yugoslavian/Balkan Tech Tree in the future
Yugoslavia for sure has potential to stand as its own tree, with no outside additions from other countries. In my opinion, yugoslav tech tree will look more like a mix of sweden and france, where sweden is a generally small tech tree, and france is fully fleshed out, with some use of foreign vehicles.
As a person who has roots from the former Yugoslav states I would love to play an independent Yugoslav tech tree. It has potential and could work fairly well.
The tech tree can have really wacky and good vehicles, which I would love.
With the support from people giving suggestions, it would be nice to see the tech tree and its vehicles in game.
I fully support it!
You should add the Pantsir-S1M to that list since Serbia has two batteries on order, I created a suggestion for it if you’re curious about it.
That is what the Pantsir-S1 is in my draft is alluding to but when i going to do the next draft i will fix that error and specify that it is the S1M variant
Sounds good, also I thought they had the Pantsir-S1, must be mistaken then.
EDIT: I also updated my suggestion to include it into the Yugoslavian tech tree.
Regarding the Soko J-22 Orao it’s already being worked on as the Romanian IAR 93 Vultur by the creator of the IAR81c and TA 154 premiums. The J-22 Orao/IAR 93 is the same plane as it was co designed and co produced by Iugo and communist Romania : https://live.warthunder.com/user/NovA29R/
if you need some more suggestions you can look up in wargame:red dragon
That’s a big misconception about Greece right here…
Greece is a NATO nation, which means (similar with Turkey for example) they have a mixture of vehicles from European and US origin and even some Russian ones and some modifications of them.
Airforce side , in ww2 at start we had a mixture of PZL P24 (a variant of P11 that Poland didn’t use ) , Fairy Battle B.1 , Potez 633B2 and Gloster Gladiator…and some other vehicles of pre-war era.
During WW2 , the squadrons that survived fought mainly in Africa … with a mix of equipment from US and British origin such as Spitfire VB/ VC, IX HF/LF , Hurricanes, Blenheims , Helldivers and even Spit XVI (though post war it was a ww2 plane).
50’s to 70’s we had mostly US equipment we used mainly US types, F-86s, F-104Gs, F-5As , F-84G/F and F-102s.
After 1974 ( Post Greek Junta era) they added in the equipment Mirage F1CG, F-4E and A-7H/E .
After 1988 the types consisted mainly of variants of F-16 constantly upgrading and M2K EG…along with the everlasting F-4Es , while in 90s we stopped using F-104s and by 2000s we retired A-7s and F1CGs with the major force being F-16s and M2ks (their upgraded variants). If we go till now add Rafale in the mix of F-16s and M2K-5s and the upgraded F-4E AUPs …
Aka … Nothing to do with Germany. Basically if you add us in Germany, the German Air Tech tree will get one of the main US fighters, the main French fighters and MiG 29 …
In fact it could be good for the German Air Tree.
Other than that, in Ground tree for years we mainly use various types of US equipment until the arrival of first Leopards…and even had some BMP-1s and a variant of BMP we replaced the turret with ZSU-24 turrets …
The funny thing is naval side… our main types were US, until the point of MEKO frigates and 209/214 submarines of German origin… yet the main frigate was Kortenaer S of Netherlands origin…and some La Combattante missile boats of French origin and some US ships along the line like Knox-class Frigates (now retired) as well as C.F. Adams destroyers (retired). That makes it as fact that before 70s-80s our main ships were US origin…
So just because we have Leopard tanks makes us us in common with Germany?
For the most part we are heavily related with US and French vehicles and depending on the era you can even see some main UK vehicles…
Adding us in Germany, yes… would help their tree , no comment about it , especially post 1970 equipment and ww2 equipment (access in Spitfires) , but…wouldn’t it make it jack of all trades ?
On the other side it is a good idea… i don’t know.
But just for game reasons… i don’t think that we do have many other reasons than 3 specific types mainly in the modern era (1980s +) in relation to Germany… when we practically have US inventory from 1950 and then as a core.
I’d prefer a Balkan tree , which will be a multinational mixture of equipment from the get go, could be fun.
Or else a NATO mix tree along with PACT mix tree, where you could insert vehicles from many nations and create a solid core of vehicles , without defying logic on it…
Else, we go like China tree and i very much dislike what they did because at some point we would have F-16s/M-2Ks/Su-27s along with any indigenous and any mix of Soviet and US made vehicles until post Cold War…essentially making them all in one tree and even favorable in some cases comparing to USSR/Russia and US trees . Each tech tree should have something unique…
My TL:DR answer to post it is a very solid, crystal clear “No”
For a more through explanation on why this statement is not only incorrect but also not only misses the point of what I am completely saying but is also misleading in some aspects
First point
in ww2 at start we had a mixture of PZL P24 (a variant of P11 that Poland didn’t use ) , Fairy Battle B.1 , Potez 633B2 and Gloster Gladiator…and some other vehicles of pre-war era.
During WW2 , the squadrons that survived fought mainly in Africa … with a mix of equipment from US and British origin such as Spitfire VB/ VC, IX HF/LF , Hurricanes, Blenheims , Helldivers and even Spit XVI (though post war it was a ww2 plane).
There is immediately one major issue with this claim. I failed to mention in the post but the main reason why I suggest why Post-war Greece should be represented but not Inter-war & WWII era Greece is very simple, Interwar & WWII era Greece would be a “Oops all copy n paste” even the so called “unique” vehicles like the PZL P24 & Do.22 are so similar to variants that other nations operated (mainly Turkey for the Former, Finland and Yugoslavia for the Latter) that they do not count. At least Post-war Greece has some genuinely unique vehicles and unique variants of existing vehicles to it
50’s to 70’s we had mostly US equipment we used mainly US types, F-86s, F-104Gs, F-5As , F-84G/F and F-102s.
After 1974 (Post Greek Junta era) they added in the equipment Mirage F1CG, F-4E and A-7H/E .
After 1988 the types consisted mainly of variants of F-16 constantly upgrading and M2K EG…along with the everlasting F-4Es , while in 90s we stopped using F-104s and by 2000s we retired A-7s and F1CGs with the major force being F-16s and M2ks (their upgraded variants). If we go till now add Rafale in the mix of F-16s and M2K-5s and the upgraded F-4E AUPs …
This would be a valid argument except for one important aircraft
F-4E AUP
The F-4E AUP is literally a upgrade package that is co-developed by EAB and DASA, DASA is a German defense firm. I can go one step further, guess where Greece got their RF-4E’s from? that’s right, Germany not the United States, also guess where Greece got most of their F-104G’s from? that’s right, Germany
and i haven’t done yet because this is the juiciest detail
Ground tree for years we mainly use various types of US equipment until the arrival of first Leopards…and even had some BMP-1s
If you did some research (which i’m guessing you did not), you would find out that all of Greece’s BMP-1’s were Ex East-German BMP-1’s and even the first batch of upgrades done to them (mainly to meet NATO standards of safety) were done by Germans in Germany
You cannot have a Greek sub-tree (either full or post-war only) in the US TT because they do not need it, they have already have enough vehicles in their TT and domestic vehicles not added to choose from, France doesn’t need a Greek sub-tree for the much of the same reasons. Using the whole “X nation should be in Y’s TT’s a sub nation because they operate Z amount of vehicles from X country”’ argument is inherently flawed (and also said argument needs to permanently die). It disregards the geopolitical factors and most importantly stances of said nation
I’d prefer a Balkan tree , which will be a multinational mixture of equipment from the get go, could be fun.
Or else a NATO mix tree along with PACT mix tree, where you could insert vehicles from many nations and create a solid core of vehicles , without defying logic on it…
Else, we go like China tree and i very much dislike what they did because at some point we would have F-16s/M-2Ks/Su-27s along with any indigenous and any mix of Soviet and US made vehicles until post Cold War…essentially making them all in one tree and even favorable in some cases comparing to USSR/Russia and US trees . Each tech tree should have something unique…
Having an unified Balkan TT is overall stupid because of not only what I stated before in my original post as well it completely disregards geopolitical factors, the relationship between Greece and the rest of the Balkans during the Cold War was tense even at the best of times. Don’t forget Yugoslavia supported the communist side of the Greek Civil war and Tito really wanted to annex Greece. Also the US did make several proposals to invade Yugoslavia and if the proposal did pass, Greece will be on the US’s side, West Germany will also be on the US’s side as well. Another reason on why I strongly against a Unified Balkan TT is because it would destroy the identity of the Yugoslav TT essentially making it cannot decide if it’s wants to be a NATO style TT, a Warsaw Pact style TT or what the Yugoslav TT is designed to be, a NAM style TT. Making the Yugoslav TT strictly a Yugoslav TT means it has a more coherent Identity, a NAM style TT (similar to the Swedish TT)
The only reason why the East and West Germany and why PRC & Taiwan are in the same TT. Well in the case for the former West Germany inherited most weaponry that East Germany operated even if Unified Germany didn’t use most of them. Even though I disagree with East and West Germany being in the same TT it does make sense in that regards. For the Latter if Gaijin all of a sudden make the PRC & Taiwanese TT’s separate from each other, even if Gaijin only make this change available outside of Mainland China, the CCP will immediately ban the game for “making a political statement that goes against the narrative of the CCP” and essentially cutting Gaijin off of one of the largest gaming markets. I am extremely against the PRC & Taiwan being in the Same TT, I do however recognize that it is necessary to pair them together in a business point of view. Finally putting all the Post-Yugoslav TT’s in the Yugoslav TT makes sense because the nations in question were formed extremely recently and giving them a separate TT would not work gameplay wise even if this hypothetical TT is designed like the Israeli TT.
No one said about a Greek tree should be in US or France… they clearly do not need it. So i didn’t even mention something like this.
I’m just pointing out it has more relations in importing vehicles from US and France than Germany…
RF-4Es got to Greece from both US and Germany… yet…US plane. F-104G got used by all NATO if anything… and similarly someone could say that because we had NF-5As we should be in a Netherlands tree… 37 F-104Gs came from USA, another 9 delivered from USA but USA got them back from Spain…About 50 F-104Gs and RF-104Gs came from Germany and another 10 of them from Netherlands.
That’s why i am saying if Greece belongs to a tree is a mixed NATO one , where you can pick vehicles and fill spots on demand from many nations…
Also i never said Greece to be part of Yogoslavian tree … Balkan tree is another story and is a mix of nations that belong in the Balkan region.
You can also put Greece in Italy along with other Mediterranean nations like Spain to improve Italian tree which is and will be lackluster …
To me it doesn’t matter where you put it …or if, mostly it matters what is needed and where to give some nations some appeal or uniqueness …
And that goes for any proposal about mixed tech trees.
Also, most NATO or PACT nations will have copy and paste vehicles in a way or another (even subvariants) of vehicles mostly belonging to their parent nations.
At least Israeli versions for example are heavily modified in many occasions and they did or still produce some indigenous stuff .
+1 :)
Can’t Wait to see Skoda tanks
yep,is well be a interesting tech tree in wt,and im looking forward to it
There are also many player-created skins and possible tech trees in wtlive
Balkans all the way!
+1
agree on the no unified Balkan tree , I think it should stay strictly Yugoslavia and the nations that made up Yugoslavia after its break up.
I think they should have minor balkan nations additions that cant have their own trees to make it better and to give more representation.
