Completely untrue. You can fly straight for a couple seconds even less, fire of 1-3 shots and because your stupid 47mm can just nuke an entire tank you only need 1 shot to land. I have seen people that know how to play it do really quick passes and come out of it with kills. That is also helped by the fact the gun is a fucking laser with really low dispersion.
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Indeed, and frankly I don’t really see much of an issue with these, nor any others firing similar shells. The only “problem” with Cannon CAS is that currently-gimped SPAAG require an unreasonable amount of practice to begin to be decently effective countering them, while the currently-ideal Fighters to counter it are just as much killstreak powerups as the CAS they are countering, thus nobody is able to have them up beforehand. Yaks are easy enough to shoot down especially when they are tunnel-visioned in strafing runs with most fighters around their BR.
All APCR in the entire game was butchered many years ago, and has only been further butchered since.
But nice to know there are other folk who see what the actual problem is - the people doing the crying on the forums who refuse to either adapt to what counters do exist or insist on adding better ones.
Complaining about APHE postpen is pointless given that most of the same people who cry today also voted “No” to even test historically accurate APHE postpen damage.
How are bomb and rocket CAS much different in that regard? A single quick pass with a 500kg bomb will kill most things that are stationary and delete open tops from a mile away. A single direct hit from a decent rocket will immolate most things unless they are exceptionally well-armored, and those shoot perfectly straight these days too.
Yes, for once there is a Cannon CAS platform that isn’t a miserable brick and also isn’t fighting its own gun to simply get it on target.
For the sake of gameplay variety, every Cannon CAS should be that way.
If you want countermeasures, then divert your anger about the Yak to enhancing the countermeasures we already possess, then use those buffed counters to shoot it down yourself. Constructive balancing instead of destructive balancing.
Rockets are not as accurate and often mounted on the wings making them harder to aim as well as them mostly being HEAT warheads which do a lot less damage.
Planes with bombs usually lose flight performance when carrying heavy bombs that are most effective at ground target destruction as well as having a limited amount of those bombs usually means they take longer to line up for another pass after failing to kill you the first time. Also bombs on moving targets are quite hard to hit effectively.
All of this is fucking irrelevant anyway since there is a lot of historical evidence that the yak-9 is severely overperforming anyway. If a vehicle is buffed and way overtuned compared to reality (no reliability issues with the gun, too accurate, no overheating, no airframe damage, noncompatible shells) destructive balancing is the only correct course of action. And I would not call it destructive since it’s gaijin that made it too good from the start. It never used to be a big issue and a matter of complaints untill they added the stupid APHE to it.
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in game yes. it stayed as an experiment for a reason
well I think bombs can be just as destructive since against heavier targets it may take 4-5 shots to kill (obviously not consistent across all targets). But the usage of the autocannon requires alot less skill than using all other CAS ordinance.
I do agree it is heavily buffed and have said it before on this post and others. The APHE round isnt backed and only a fragmentation shell had proper documented usage. Compered to something like the german duck which yes is at a lower br but does actually require skill to get kills is a good example of how the yak should be performing. Well in good hands but not wiping entire lobbies upwards of 7.0
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Other than SNEBs which are given significant artificial shotgunning for some odd reason, most of aircraft rockets actually shoot quite straight.
And carrying a big cannon somehow doesn’t also degrade flight performance? At least bombs can be jettisoned in an emergency. A big gun is still dead weight even when empty.
Furthermore killing anything on the move is difficult with any weapon.
Let’s cut right to the core of the issue: this isn’t about historical data, because historical unreliability is selectively ignored for everything in this game for the sake of actual gameplay flow. If we start down the road of modeling frame-stress fractures on the Yak, then to remain fair, every tank it faces needs to have its real-world transmission failures, final drive breakdowns, and manufacturing defects modeled too.
The real issue is that a certain segment of the player base wants their personal vision of a “tank-only mode” either handed to them on a silver platter or via proxy by nerfing/senselessly inflating SP cost of every plane to where nobody bothers spawning planes anymore. They would rather demand destructive balancing that ruins a niche aircraft’s identity across all game modes than adapt to the sandbox or ask for better tools to adapt with.
Nerfs are inherently destructive. Whether you like the plane or not, other people may be enjoying the plane precisely because of the very feature you are calling to remove. How would it be remotely fair to remove the ammunition type when it may also be used to hunt player-grade tank columns in Air RB or strafe the armored decks of ships in Combined Naval RB - would you punish people using it in other modes just because you won’t adapt or call for better tools to adapt with? Seriously?
Instead of constantly crying for nerfs to push aviation into irrelevance, players who hate CAS need to start utilizing the exact tools the game provides. At 5.7, the Yak-9K is an unmitigated brick compared to any dedicated prop fighter. If it is loitering above you, spawn a fighter and shoot it down. It is a skill-based, immediate solution. And based on Statshark, its K/B is just 0.26, while its K/D is 0.34 - that doesn’t scream “broken plane” to me.
Instead of nerfing things into the dirt, the constructive solution is to make ground-to-air counters more reliable for average players. Give pre-radar SPAAGs, SPHs with HE-VT, and commander pintle MGs a short-range (0–1000m base, 1600m aced) optical lead indicator governed by crew rangefinding skills. Furthermore, add in the default plane feature from Combined Naval so that even if you “forget” to bring your own Fighter and CAS, the game provides decent (though suboptimal) ones for you scaling with the match BR. Further still, why not extend the anti-ODL feature of an extra tank and an extra SPAAG down to all BR ranges so then every user ALSO has SPAAG whether they like it or not. Make the counters so accessible that there are zero excuses not to use them, to where anyone trying to continue complaining only humiliates themselves, exactly like the History Channel Tiger/T-34 Driver types were in years long-past. By making their “problem” now their liability, they shut themselves up.
And while we’re at it, why not rename “Ground Battles” to “Joint Operations” specifically so the “but its ground battles!” knee-jerk argument also ceases to exist?
still not as straight as the yak 9 and not from the center.
And that affects the yak how? It is a freaking UFO.
es but in this case we have fake nonexistent way too overtuned APHE on this plane.
Because for most of the game’s lifespan the yak 9 used to not be liek this and was a non issue. There are other planes in this cannon CAS niche that you can play but oh wait they are not as fun because they have drawbacks “shocked pikachu face” unlike the stupid yak 9 which has pretty much none.
because it was absolutely fine before that in air by nuking planes with the HE. It is a fighter not a ground attacker and whoa boy can it fight. Also you don’t need it for ships. At the BR it sits at you get proxied before you get into range of ships and there are no small enough ships you can effectively straffe anyway.
removing a shell that gaijin made up is not punishment. It is just removing the unfair advantage given to these players a couple years ago. The fact that you conmsider it a punishment is quite telling.
Why not both?
This thread is still hot? The Yak-9K is fine. The SP increase in aircraft definitely lowered the amount of all CAS.
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Honestly. I’m surprised it is. If only players advocated for realistic APHE changes instead of the current one, i bet you this thread wouldn’t be as hot and wouldn’t have people dancing around with these other ridicolous suggestions instead of fixing the core issue.
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Your argument is terrible sophistry. Or it could also be taken as a threat against players who prefer tanks of a specific country. Listen carefully. Fragile weapons can still deliver their intended performance if they receive the best possible maintenance. However, the NS-45 of the Yak-9K has been proven by flight test results to be “physically impossible.”
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Nerfs can be destructive or they can contribute to more authentic/realistic and in this instance much better gameplay. Nerfs also fix things that need to be fixed.
So instead of fixing what is clearly broken you opt for breaking everything else to match it? This is why we have absolutely atrocious aircraft damage models where literally ONE 20mm round can cut a four engine bomber’s tail off because instead of realistically nerfing the MG-151 back in the day they buffed every other cannon to disgusting levels.
How about the La-7’s and Ki-84’s a few years back that couldn’t stall and had ridiculously UFO flight models that could helicopter up to 10,000ft hanging on their prop, I’m sure we just needed to adapt instead of having them nerfed or would you rather that all of the drag was removed from all aircraft to make it fair… do you see how silly this all is now?
So make the game braindead like flying the OP Yak? I’m sure those nations that use ground pounders that have to get close would love to be instantly destroyed by a chap on the ground with a lead indicator telling their attackers exactly where to shoot. AB is the game with lead indicators not RB pre-guidance technology. You’re willing to implement all of these broken things instead of just rightfully nerfing the one thing that ruins the game for many people.
Also the Yak is far from a flying brick, for an aircraft with a rather large cannon in its nose it flies somewhat unbelievably well.
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So then why not enhance all other Cannon CAS up to the Yak’s level of functionality then?
Many planes ingame have generous flight models, this is hardly unique to Yaks.
The APHE nerf boat has long since sailed, I don’t know why you keep complaining about it (and honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if you voted “No” on that poll, either). The vote was cast, and the devs did exactly as the majority opinion requested - they left the nuclear postpen as-is.
This makes any and all complaints about APHE postpen since then little more than hot air. Doesn’t matter if we’re talking Japanese 30mm Type 5s, Russian 45mm NS-45s, 35mm Oerlikon SPAAGs, 30mm HSS831L on the Falcon, 40mm Bofors APHE rounds, or any manner of cupola shot BS.
Because this ship has long since sailed, and trying to force a “recall vote” is futile, the only practical avenue left is to buff everything else up closer to APHE’s level.
For most of the game’s lifespan the plane was totally redundant and rarely used except for memes. Even the Yak-9T with its 60mm pen solid AP-T round was - because the round was simply not effective enough to be worth trying to master in most players’ hands.
Giving the even bigger 45mm gun APHE rounds added meaningful gameplay variety and flavor.
No, other Cannon CAS are “borderline useless.”
- Who in their right mind uses a BK 37-armed plane which has just APCR and HE, when the former shatters more often than not and does near-zero postpen when it doesn’t, and the latter only kills open tops, on a gun that has only 12 shots except on the Bf-110G-2.
- Who in their right mind uses 30mm MK103 when APCR has been thoroughly obliterated over the years with a 16-fold postpen nerf, an accuracy nerf, global neutering of all APCR, APCR shell shattering, and this APCR specifically seeing 25% of its penetration removed arbitrarily.
- Who in their right mind uses a Yak-9T when the 37mm AP-T does rather anemic postpen damage like all 37-57mm AP rounds seem to generally do?
- Who in their right mind uses R2Y2s for gun runs when they run into a wall of Radar SPAAG even though that gun has APHE?
- Who in their right mind uses a Mollins Mosquito, a T18B(57), the 40mm Hurricane/Beaufighter, or the Tempest Vickers P often if at all?
- When is the last time you have seen a PBJ-1H or XA-38 or Ki-45 Otsu actually get a kill with their main gun - those have APHE but they handle like whales so good luck getting the gun on target, and then when you manage to get it on target the gun frequently doesn’t shoot straight.
I could go on and on and on and on and on. Every Cannon CAS in the entire game is nerfed into nigh-uselessness, and the Yak-9K only causes “problems” because its the sole case that ISN’T. Then instead of giving people better counters, you keep chanting for neutering this plane just so it becomes as irrelevant as all the others.
If it were “fine” then why was it so uncommon to see in Air RB? The gun was frequently prone to sparking even if it hit something, and because it lacked any form of AP round for so many years it had no purpose at all that the Yak-9T couldn’t do just the same, though of course the 37mm HE also frequently sparkled. Almost nobody equipped the 37mm or 45mm guns on later Yaks either for similar reasons.
I consider it a punishment because the plane finally has a unique purpose that isn’t overshadowed by its brethren. I consider it a punishment because its yet another CAS nerf to service the whines of the same type of people who will always find some new CAS plane or weapon to complain about in an endless loop the moment this one gets slapped down.
So no, what needs punishing is your mentality, via making the counters intentionally so potent and easy to use that you no longer possess an excuse to complain.
Because it’s a game at the end of the day, because the game already has the components necessary to fix the actual problem (a pseudo-religious sect of fanatical players who never accept CAS in any form crying endlessly about their supposed victimhood), and said fix would give all the sane normal players working counters.
Nerfs help nobody. Not when the same people doing the complaining always inevitably find a new “problem” to complain about and then resume the same type of arguments on that other weapon or vehicle in an endless loop until that is nerfed too. Nerfs do not encourage anyone to improve. Nerfs take no effort on the part of the complainer.
Buffing counters on the other hand, gives vehicles which currently suck actual purpose. It gives anyone who wishes to complain the tools to help themselves with not just what is currently the source of their ire, but everything else in the future they might get irate about. And if said people complaining refuse to use the buffed counters, they lose their victimhood excuses and get promptly humiliated by everyone who DOES adapt, exactly like History Channel Tiger/T-34 Drivers did in years past.
There was no SP increase for all CAS. At best high-pen gun belts were given costs corresponding to moderate ordinance levels.
Indeed. As far as I’m concerned, the “core issue” is the people complaining about CAS. Not the Yaks. Not any other plane. These same arguments have been going on for over a decade with merely different targets each time. The mentality of the people complaining is the ultimate problem, and one Gaijin should have stomped out years ago when they said “No” repeatedly to the tank-only mode question for the final time.
But as I said to Herojure, the boat for nerfing APHE has long since sailed, so all that’s practically left to us is buffing everything else up to near the same level.
If Yaks fly and shoot unrealistically, then buff all other Cannon CAS up to near its level. Make the other big guns shoot perfectly straight without question. Make the flight models of planes such as Beaufighters, Hurricanes, PBJs, XA-38s, IL-2s, Ki-45s, and other big weapon carriers less wobbly so they can actually aim. Add any missing ammunition types current Cannon CAS planes should have.
I’m not so much threatening any specific nation’s tanks as I am overly favorable damage model mechanics in War Thunder. You want to keep shaving down CAS until its worthless? Then lose all ability to repair modules in the field beyond tracks. Then the weakened CAS weapons actually can mobility kill things.
I see “tit-for-tat” stuff like that as mutually self-destructive to the whole game, and thus would rather bring everything else up closer to the level of the current outliers, while buffing the counters to all such planes. Then anyone who wants to counter them can - and anyone who still refuses no longer possesses an excuse not to help themselves. Thus if they keep crying, they humiliate themselves.
“Tanker victim mentality” solved, permanently. If I am “threatening” anything, I am threatening THAT mentality that underlies every single CAS nerf in the game’s entire history. You have a right to your opinion if you like something or not. You do not have a right to ruin everyone else’s fun because you refuse to adapt to the rules of the sandbox.
In the case of weaponry though, they make the difference between something being practically worth using or being utterly useless.
Prior to adding these rounds, few people in their right mind used the Yak-9K. The HE rounds frequently sparkled vs planes, and thus if you were going to use a sparkle-prone meme gun Yak you may as well just use the Yak-9T which has less deadweight for similar performance, which is exactly what resulted. Then people never bothered or rarely bothered using the Yak-9P with the 37mm or the Yak-9UT with the 37/45mm equipped precisely because the guns had little to no purpose.
I value practical gameplay variety over perfect historical accuracy any day of the week, and always will.
Regarding how large-caliber cannons behave on planes? Yes, in fact - because having guns that do not shoot where you aim them on planes that already handle like flying tubs in nearly every case adds insult to injury and renders the planes totally not worth using at all. And having those planes be incredibly wobbly in regards to rudder control also makes them needlessly frustrating to use. Because look around you - who even plays them and actually does well in them? I cannot remember the last time I saw an XA-38, PBJ-1H, P.108A, Hs-129B-3, Stuka G1/2, Hs-129B-2, or countless other Cannon CAS get kills without crashing. Instead everyone just “grabs the best fighter they have and straps on some bombs or comically large rockets - oh wait the rockets keep getting nerfed so just bombs, nevermind…”
I want that history of bullshit nerfing dismantled.
I never asked for that in particular. Those are not relevant to this discussion.
Planes in general do not fly realistically in War Thunder. Planes in RB gain huge situational awareness and weapon accuracy advantages from 3rd Person Camera and Mouse Aim compared to SPAAGs. SPAAGs are stuck on overly-cluttered maps with zero ability to ascertain lead unless the plane is flying right towards you, where frequently you at best trade with the CAS.
SPAAGs are meanwhile stripped of their operational advantages, not unlike Bombers are in Air RB. As defensive vehicles, SPAAGs frequently operated in groups and focused fire on planes in a coordinated manner from multiple directions - ingame players don’t have the option to do this without depriving their team of so many tanks that their team gets overrun. Most SPAAG crews were trained to estimate the lead required, and many non-radar AAs had specific gunsights or even analog computers to help estimate lead - which the game could represent with a lead assist.
The lead assist is also to compensate for the advantages planes get from features inherent to all of RB - 3rd Person Camera and Mouse Aiming. Trying to pursue locking planes to cockpit view with only Mouse-Joystick controls is a non-starter for Gaijin in RB mode, so instead of making the planes harder to aim, SPAAG, SPHs, and tank pintle MGs would gain the means to be much more accurate in their shooting. The lead marker showing up only at ranges where its practical to engage CAS also would teach average players how to correctly use SPAAG, because clearly they just won’t learn.
So yes, I would rather bring everything else up to the level of the Yak within reason, and give people broadly-available and easy-to-use counters to EVERY CAS PLANE now and forever. It directly attacks and forcibly dismantles the “whiny tanker victim mentality” underlying every single CAS nerf in the history of War Thunder by making them no longer helpless victims - instead they’re just irrational fools who refuse to help themselves.
The Yaks are not bricks, but every other Cannon CAS generally is. Thus the fact that large caliber cannons on all of those are not given the same treatment as the NS-45 is beyond silly. The Yak can easily aim. Something like a Stuka G, a Duck, a PBJ? Yeah…good luck aiming that and actually killing with it.
People rarely use Cannon CAS because it more often than not is less useful than just stuffing a big bomb or three on your favorite Fighter. Instead of nerfing the one outlier to be as worthless as all the rest, I would bring all the currently-nigh-worthless ones up to the outlier’s level.
Stop deflecting this was about rockets.
Deflecting again. The yak is the only effective cannon cas with a good flight model.
You truly are a piece of work aren’t you.
It’s not a recall vote because the shell never existed there is nothing to vote about. But yeah sure just buff every shell to aphe levels so there is no more difference and we can all one shot eachother constantly. Can’tr wait for my french 100mm solid shot to do the same post pen as APHE just because you decided all shells should be buffed.
being used for memes was meaningful variety and even more meaningful flavour. Now it’s just become the thing everybody hates. Honestly I had more fun playing and spading it with HE only before they aded APHE than ever since. Big He go big boom on planes is fun.
The other cannon CAS perform about as well as they would IRL and yet you still fail to see how the only one that performs well could be proiblematic because it is overperforming.
And again you go changing your arguments.
Because it was a low BR afaik foldered plane in the russian tree.
Many other guns have sparked through the ages of WT. It was just how it was back then not that I agree with it. Only recently have they started being more reliable, and don’t even get me started on the real shatter shithshow.
And I don’t. There, happy??
Wrong.
The fucking issue here is we are proposing a historical nerf and you are proposing fantasy buffs while time and time again gaijin has shown they lean more towards historical capabilites of systems. Your argument has no legs to stand on.
This is a stupid argument again. If a medium tank had too much armour because for some reason gaijin gave it too much, would you argue that all other mediums should get more armour as well???
You are inventing an argument here to play the victim.
you’re playing the wrong game then. And stop pretending the yaks are useless without the APHE and have no value.
Now if you come back with the same stupid arguments again and keep arguing in bad faith like you have so far this will be my last response to you. But if you want to stop assuming the worst about people and accusing us of certain things (whining, voting no in the APHE poll, wanting to nerf all CAS…) and your arguments start making more sense…
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How about kingcobra and airacobra tho?
Are they Effective at all? Never had any luck with them
I got soviet kingcobra a10 today and it seems pretty strong so far. Soviet bombs suck so bad sometimes that I mostly use cannon to kill. And in maneuver battles I never managed to lose. Only due to my mistakes in headons or when smb sneaks on me. Tho of course it might be just enemy being dumb.
Cannon and agile base looks like good mix to me. Yeah it doesnt instagib anything on pen but in that case it would be quite broken like yak9k. Right now its solid and should stay where it is imo.
Yeah when I played it the cannon damage and pen were inconsistent. Not like the yak where it just nukes anything.
Kinda think yak should lose that belt considering kingcobra with smaller caliber works fine if you place your shots well currently. Precision rewards you with kills on cobra, not just stupid muuhu aphe anywhere to rip turret off. Or in case of duck, grizzly and other planes with aphe but bad agility - precision in terms of controlling and positioning your plane for strike. They all have some pro and con while yak has pros and no cons which makes no sense.
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The 45mm cannon is not that heavy.
Not with a cannon this good.
CAS is not weak at all and certainly does not need aircraft as unbalanced as this.
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Ckasaron’s STRAW MAN tactics make me dizzy, but I still don’t want to give up on the discussion.
Let me offer a suggestion of my own. How about strengthening the AP of the large caliber machine guns currently in the game, and in exchange removing the NS-45 and 45 mm APHE?
Specifically, by slightly increasing post-penetration fragments or something along those lines. This way, even 30 mm+ autocannons such as the Mk 103, NS-37, and 37 mm M4 should still be able to perform reasonably well in CAS roles.
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Simply put - I will always assume the worst about anyone who would rather scream nerf than look at the actual environment clearly and instead buff a counter or bring the rest of similar vehicles up to the same level. I do not respect anyone who shouts for nerfing of anything. Period.
If the plane was so “good” for so many years as you claim you want it returned to being, then why did Snail decide to mysteriously add such rounds in the first place? I played and spaded it back then - it was “funny trash,” at best. Personally given the night-&-day difference with functioning rounds I’d want to give APHE rounds/belts to many other large guns lacking them, just to spite people like you until you cry yourselves to sleep and decide to find a game that is “JUST TANKS” from day one.
My arguments are not going to change, FYI. I view crying about a plane which currently sits at truly abysmal K/B, K/D, and WR as laughable and completely detached from the reality of how the game actually plays.
Yes, historical accuracy is a nice ideal - BUT sometimes compromises must be made for gameplay. The plane was useless filler before, then became great. Then its BRs ballooned hilariously, because the actual problem of SPAAG being terrible has never been addressed.
If it were that “unbalanced” it would have maintained far better stats.
My arguments remain the same - buff the counters and expect people to take care of their “problem” with it themselves. If they choose not to, it’s not a game problem anymore.