YaK-9K: Remove it's APHE belt or move it up to 5.7 in GRB

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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1594

Generally-speaking, all solid shot below 75-ish mm-sizes is not great. I could certainly see giving all solid AP the same shrapnel pattern seen on large solid AP rounds regardless of their size alongside retaining the APHE belt on the Yak (because then every other Cannon CAS would have roughly similar postpen). But my stance on removing it remains unchanged.

Solid shot is only consistent at long 75mm sizes or bigger. APCR/HVAP is terrible. SPAAG below radar tiers are incompetent unless the pilots are literally sucking glue. And the Fighters people would shoot down the Yaks with are just as much killstreak powerups as the Yaks/other CAS they’re tasked with destroying.

You wonder why I seem stubborn? Because to me the problems are painstakingly obvious.

We’ve been down this road of “just nerf the CAS, it’ll soon go away…” dozens upon dozens of times. The arguments don’t change, only the target of them does. Hence I propose buffing counters and making them far more accessible. Then once the counters are sufficiently potent and easy to use, suddenly planes like the Yak even with APHE suddenly cease to be an issue.

I will always reject any degree of “just nerf it.” I’ve seen this exact. same. argument. dozens upon dozens of times in the past for various other weapons or planes or both. And what results?

The exact same people behind said “just nerf it” cries find a new target within weeks, if not days, and the whole mess starts all over again.

It’s not a straw man, it’s digging down to the root of the issue - a toxic mentality of “it killed me, I don’t like it, Gaijin please nerf it/give me a mode without it because I don’t want to grow up and adapt!”

That mentality is what underlies pretty much every nerf in the game’s history. CAS, SPAA, APCR, APDS, HEAT, HEATFS, small APFSDS, various specific vehicles, etc. That is the pattern I am recognizing and pointing out for you and others. It’s unhealthy for the game long-term, and is a major reason why the game feels like its dying of stagnation.

1595

Most times I get in CAS it’s incredibly easy to get kills. It shouldn’t be this easy.

3 Likes
1596

Even though you and I suggest different “remedies,” they are borne from the same line of thinking.

A large part of why I call for “why don’t we relentlessly buff SPAAG and make them far easier to use even in average (unskilled) player hands?” is precisely my observation of this very line of thinking regarding CAS.

I simply vehemently disagree on nerfing CAS in any way, shape, or form - the game has done that for what, twelve years?! And people are still crying in the exact same manner, just on different targets each time, no matter how many weapons get neutered.

Thus I arrived at “buff the counters to make CAS less easy to use while not touching the weapon functionality itself, and also back the perpetual whiners into a corner of their own making to force them to shut the fuck up.” Because I ultimately want to end the arguments without giving them any more handouts they won’t ever appreciate anyways.

1 Like
1597

You still don’t get that the problem people have is when they are in a tank, not SPAA.

The issue is that they have to die in order to be able to do anything meaning that they are being punished by playing well and not dying.

In the end currently the best tactic is to do C&F as ot gives You all the advantages in PvP.

5 Likes
1598

the “real” issue is that people nowerdays need dopamin every few seconds. For me, i have defeated a p47 in my tiger 1H when it drops it 3 bombs and 10 rockets on me and im still alive after. Because i now have maybe 30 sec repair (or just 17) while he is now RTB and starting with low energy and is out for the next 2-3 minutes. Most tanks can (in 1vs1) avoid most planes quite well. You dont have to shoot down a plane in order to win against it.

1599

You can survive only when pilot do badly.

No matter how good You are, You will die to 500kg bomb dropped on You.

3 Likes
1600

Would take a lot of tries to win against yak9k, german cigar or kingcobra that way.

1601

sure, i’ll die to a perfect placed bomb unless it gets Gaijined. but i can reduce the ods by alot simply by moving. Done that often enought. And if the plain has to suicide to kill me i still won SP vise.
Same can be said btw to something like a Nashorn concealed at 1km thats already zeroed in. You are dead unless a bad player fumbles it.

EDIT: im not saying CAS is on the disadventage usualy. But most CAS killing rampages come from good pilot vs bad tankers. When i get 10kills+2air kills/0 deaths nuke in an M18 in a city map in a full Uptier, than its not because the tank is OP but because i faced mostly worse players skillwise.

Planes like Yak9K /UT should gets it APHE removed. unlike other planes who have to fight with either bad agilety or bad guns. But in order to get CAS a less potential dominant position you should increas its counters instead of trying to cut it further. Like make AA’s pay the same 155 aditional SP when using semi/full AP belts. Increase reward for shooting down planes while reduce it for killing tanks (yes, i mean that) give ww2 AA’s who had historical lead inticators something similar to the indicator from Arcade.

1602

Tanks can’t counter it. You need to explode your own vehicle to respawn an AA unit or fighter. Maybe time for a mechanic which allows to change the vehicle. Something like Air RB. You can land there, despawn, change loadout, spawn again. Translated to GRB we would need a similar mechanic to despawn, get to unit/loadout selection screen and spawn again. Spawnpoints should be given back when despawning, ofc.

Would be also nice when you land an aircraft on the airfield. Despawn and spawn a tank again, if needed. GRB is a lineup gamemode after all. But so far you can only use lineups, when you get killed or destroy your active unit yourself.

3 Likes
1603

So when i manage to evade the bombs of a plane, it RTB, misses again, it RTB, battle ends. He made 0 score (or like 30 for “hits”) is that not a win while i can rack up score in the time he is off to the AF?

1604

Pretty powerful as anti SPAA/Open top with automatic 37mm cannon with explosive rounds

But it uses plain AP instead of aphe , with mediocre pen (37mm at max), a slower firerate (150RPM for M4 and 165RPM for M10 vs 258 RPM), more spread, worse ballistics and even worse 50cal belts (carries 2-4 tho).

1 Like
1605

It also pops planes just fine, pure dopamine.

True but kingcobra also faces worse armored opponents like pz4s which arent hard to pen. Sure you cant instagib them in most cases but with multiple precise strikes they will be dead anyway.

More ammo tho. Also it doesnt overheat as bad as yak cannon.

Note I was not saying kingcobra is better than yak. My point is kingcobra is also capable piece of cannon cas. And even in cases where cannon is lacking you can use your 3 bombs.

Also forgot to mention you can spawn twice for essentially same cost while retaining your cannon (somewhere around 550 with bombs and 500 without) which is crazy.

3 Likes
1606

sure, if You can do that and if enemy air user still won’t bomb You.

1607

One thing I have thought of would be to take the already-proposed idea of mine, giving SPAAGs a short-ranged lead indicator from 0-1000m and extending up to 1600m on an aced crew, then applying that also Heavy Flak TDs such as the Flakbus, VFW, QF 3.7 Ram, YaG-10, etc., all SPHs with HE-VT rounds loaded, and all Tank Pintle-Mounted MGs (for example all the .50cals on Shermans).

Then at least if you want to be able to engage everything, you pick an SPH. If you want to focus on smaller tanks but retain some degree of “plane fuck off” ability, you pick something with a decent ability to aim upwards on the commander mount.

But if you deliberately pick something lacking either HE-VT, commander Pintle MGs, or other anti-air weaponry, that would be entirely on you and you would get no handout mechanics for it. Your choice, your fault.

I fully agree here - I never understood how if you landed in an undamaged plane why you cannot J out to add more ordinance after you say spawned a clean fighter, shredded an enemy CAS plane, landed, repaired, and rearmed. Furthermore why not allow the same concept of rolling an undamaged tank into a cap zone to be able to swap to something else in your lineup if you have the SP for it? I mean for fuck’s sake, OG SWBF1/2 had that concept at Command Posts back in 2004-2005!

I rightfully wonder whether any APHE was ever developed for that gun, or even if the light tank 37mm SAPHEI round could fit on the shorter cartridge of the M4/M10 cannons. If its plausible, may as well “make up” a round to give other nations comparable abilities.

Similarly, it would not shock me one bit if 3-pdr APHE rounds could be fitted with new driving bands and mated to the cartridges of the 47mm Vickers P cannon. With the higher velocity that cartridge has the Tempest with those guns would be very, very nasty.

Then of course the BK 3,7 cannon literally is the same gun dimension-wise as the 37mm Flak Truck and Ostwinds. The plane gun should damn well get the same APHE shell, while the AAs damn well should get the APCR shell the planes currently have.

2 Likes
1608

Say hello to a 1000lb dropped 1m in front of you with a 1 second fuse. Even if you are moving you just don’t have the time to do anything before you drive over the bomb and explode.

3 Likes
1609

And what were you doing the 5 sec that guy lined you up? I evaded 1000 and even 2000lb bombs in my tiger1 on open field simply by moving in a way that the aircraft has dificulties to drop, or dies by trying too hard.

1610

I was in the plane dropping the bomb.