You missed my point. I said that they shouldn’t be 9.3, and they shouldn’t be 9.7, at the current state of the game. Sure, if decompression to 10.0 were to happen, I can see all kinds of changes to subsonic and supersonic aircraft BRs, including the MiG-19 and Ariete.
Not sure what’s your trying to say here. The Ariete, when slow, same with almost all aircraft without flares, can simply be killed with a 20g+ missile from a third party. Sure, you’d need a rear-aspect lock on the ariete, and the smart ariete may try to not show their rear towards that enemy, but if they play smart, it’s almost impossible not to. This would be even more likely to be the case if you decompress 8.3-9.3, and then compress 9.3 to 10.3, such that the Ariete and MiG-19 faces 20G+ missiles more often.
I mean sure, but that F104 would rarely see any possible interactions besides a quick snip at a slow unaware A-10. There is little it can do to a competent AJ37 pilot, for example, unless it’s third partying hard, without having the slightest possibility of being reversed and having a 20G+ missile being launched to its rear.
Well, from Gaijin’s past actions, such as the reduction of BRs for Vietnam / Korean war jets, such as the MiG-15s and F-86s, decompression means decompressing the 8.7-9.7 / 8.3-9.3 area, and compressing the 7.7-8.7 and 7.3-8.3 area. If you truly want decompression, they need to raise the max BR for aircraft to a much more reasonable BR, like 14.0 (with the introduction of MRAAMs), or make it so that there can only be a ± 0.7BR uptier / downtier, which would (should) effectively reduce the extremities that vehicles can face.
Your fault just about every single time. Stop going slow in situations where it will kill you. It’s also very easy to simply turn into a 9J and blind its seeker.
Other way around entirely. Ariete decides to show its ass. The missile carrier does not get to decide if he is on the ass of the ariete. Ariete almost always has the initiative here and the positioning advantage. You can almost always either be front aspect or simply not give a viable missile solution by maneuvering
nobody suggested to do this.
No? F-104 can always force guns on any aircraft in that BR in its usual matchmaker. it holds all positioning and initiative just like the ariete, just by speed/accel/climb instead of maneuverability. If you give your ass to someone you made the mistake, it wasn’t free.
Ok? Full uptier jet in the most compressed area of the entire game. We are are talking about DECOMPRESSING so this isn’t an issue any longer.
Gaijin holds zero power over what the words compression or decompression mean. Gaijin did zero decompressing in the last 5 years besides raising top BR a few times. They have only compressed.
It’s honestly easier said than done, especially with the inconsistency of the marking of enemies.
Yes, I agree with you in a 1v1 scenario, the Ariete will have the say. However, in the third party scenario, you have little control over how it will turn out, especially if both of them have 20G missiles ready. You cannot chase both of them such that your rear is always hidden from the seeker, unless they play badly, and have them in a single circle.
Guns-on in a head-on, sure, but, in any other scenario where the competent pilot is aware of you, they can simply outturn you while trying to maintain their speed. If this was a 2v1 scenario, sure, the F-104 would have a lot more say. I think the F-104 is too strong at 9.3, but it is not this insanely good vehicle that 10.3 aircraft (or even 9.7 aircraft with 20G+ missiles) find impossible to face against (assuming equal skill).
I mean sure, I don’t see what you’re trying to say here other than ‘everything is solved when proper decompression comes’. I agree with you here for the most part. However, if actual decompression, based on what you’re saying, comes about, what would the F-104 be facing in a ‘full uptier’ or ‘full downtier’ then?
Still a skill that needs to be honed, and it still is the reason you end up dying unless you get screwed by the marker system as you said, but that is a problem of the MARKER system and not the aircrafts.
It’s true in 1v2 as well. Very easy to manage this. Only gets difficult in 1v3+ in jets like ariete
With the nature of a turn fighter, like the ariete, you will eventually end up going slow, or having to reset and gain speed before merging again. This is definitely less of a problem for the Ariete than other turn fighters, as it at least has pretty good energy retention, but it can definitely become a problem if you’re in a turn fight for extended periods of time.
Which its better at than every single other aircraft at its BR basically? By a lot? You can also just shoot the enemy when they try to dodge because the F-104 has very good high speed nose authority and its down to you to miss, not them to dodge.
??? If you come at me in a head on, I’ll commit and kill you when you try to dodge, or miss and just circle back and hit you again in another attack. You cannot intercept, you cannot merge, you cannot reverse, you cannot catch. I hold all of the positioning and initiative in this assuming F-104 versus similar BR’d jets or downtiers.
literally nobody said this though
??? This started because somebody said to uptier the 4 most problematic 9.3s to 9.7-10.0 to decompress, then move everything above them higher as well to further decompress, which would mostly fix the matchmaker once you revert all of the subsonic downtiers of the last 2-3 years.
downtier ideally would be things like late transonics with missiles and uptier would be the current ~10.0 lineups.
No, this is fully up to you. It is very easy in the ariete to dodge much less agile jets while not really bleeding much speed. You DO NOT have to FULL PULL every single turn like 99% of pilots seem to do. Dodging things far less agile than you (most jets) means you just need to turn BETTER than them, not so much better you fall out the sky. All of these dogfight orientated jets at the transonic BRs play by baiting these jets into engagements that seem winnable but quickly get reversed and you do this by doing exactly what I’m describing. You need to stop going vertical if you find you are losing speed. Only dodge in horizontal or split S moves when you need to conserve energy.
You would have control over the fight in that case, but you wouldn’t really be able to do much with it unless they start going slow. The F-104 works best, at least from what I can tell, when third-partying.
Well not exactly, but it seems to be the case.
Would the F4D-1 be an example of ‘late transonics with missiles’, and the A-10 / A-5C in a full uptier?
That works well most of the time, I completely agree. There may also be some cases where you’d want to go full in, bleed some more of your energy, and kill the much less agile jet so that they’re out of the game quicker. The problem is when you are in a dogfight with a fairly agile jet, for example, the CL-13B Mk.6 with 2x Aim-9Bs, and then having to fight something like the MiG-21 SPS-K, or Hunter F.58 at the same time. You will have to keep the rate fight with the CL-13B, and you would barely have the option to get out of it.
yes, as well as things like CL13B Mk6, F-11F-1, J34, Hunter FGA.9, G.91YS, etc.
A-10 has N/A placement, will never be balanced because gaijin refuses to implement methods to do so besides undertiering it in air RB with advanced AAMs. Ideally it goes to a BR in air where it can only mostly shoot at jets with flares in downtiers.
F8U-2, F-8E, MiG-21MF/SMT, Mirage 3 are examples of what it ideally would face in an uptier.
You’re describing a 1v2 and wondering why you aren’t winning btw. Even so, it isn’t difficult to bait both jets into your rear aspect then reverse both at the same time. You would focus the subsonic btw.
It is down to you to miss, not the enemy jet to dodge… the F-104 has WAY more nose authority at high speed than is almost ever necessary to achieve kills in head on shots or rear aspect shots. It’s only in side aspect it struggles.
Do you want me to list every jet? I listed things off the top of my head. Yes F-5C would also be fine.
This is the fullest extent as to which we can decompress late transonics/early supersonics without gaijin actually going back and adding the other half of gen1-3 jets into the game that they skipped. (We’re missing a shit ton of jets from that era and if we had them we could decompress so things like the F-104 don’t face subsonics almost at all.
That said even, the CL13B at the very least is a very fast transonic, has extremely good agility, and has 9Bs to try to get a close range rear aspect shot in a reversal on the F-104.
I literally cannot remember a time anybody other than myself actually turned side aspect pre-emptively to abuse this about the F-104. You are exaggerating the playerbase’s knowledge. Even so, F-104 still holds the cards and the advantages. Best case scenario for a subsonic that can’t catch the F-104 (assuming F-104 pilot isnt bad) is to survive. You aren’t getting the kill unless you chase the F-104 when he rearms.