With the nature of a turn fighter, like the ariete, you will eventually end up going slow, or having to reset and gain speed before merging again. This is definitely less of a problem for the Ariete than other turn fighters, as it at least has pretty good energy retention, but it can definitely become a problem if you’re in a turn fight for extended periods of time.
Which its better at than every single other aircraft at its BR basically? By a lot? You can also just shoot the enemy when they try to dodge because the F-104 has very good high speed nose authority and its down to you to miss, not them to dodge.
??? If you come at me in a head on, I’ll commit and kill you when you try to dodge, or miss and just circle back and hit you again in another attack. You cannot intercept, you cannot merge, you cannot reverse, you cannot catch. I hold all of the positioning and initiative in this assuming F-104 versus similar BR’d jets or downtiers.
literally nobody said this though
??? This started because somebody said to uptier the 4 most problematic 9.3s to 9.7-10.0 to decompress, then move everything above them higher as well to further decompress, which would mostly fix the matchmaker once you revert all of the subsonic downtiers of the last 2-3 years.
downtier ideally would be things like late transonics with missiles and uptier would be the current ~10.0 lineups.
No, this is fully up to you. It is very easy in the ariete to dodge much less agile jets while not really bleeding much speed. You DO NOT have to FULL PULL every single turn like 99% of pilots seem to do. Dodging things far less agile than you (most jets) means you just need to turn BETTER than them, not so much better you fall out the sky. All of these dogfight orientated jets at the transonic BRs play by baiting these jets into engagements that seem winnable but quickly get reversed and you do this by doing exactly what I’m describing. You need to stop going vertical if you find you are losing speed. Only dodge in horizontal or split S moves when you need to conserve energy.
You would have control over the fight in that case, but you wouldn’t really be able to do much with it unless they start going slow. The F-104 works best, at least from what I can tell, when third-partying.
Well not exactly, but it seems to be the case.
Would the F4D-1 be an example of ‘late transonics with missiles’, and the A-10 / A-5C in a full uptier?
That works well most of the time, I completely agree. There may also be some cases where you’d want to go full in, bleed some more of your energy, and kill the much less agile jet so that they’re out of the game quicker. The problem is when you are in a dogfight with a fairly agile jet, for example, the CL-13B Mk.6 with 2x Aim-9Bs, and then having to fight something like the MiG-21 SPS-K, or Hunter F.58 at the same time. You will have to keep the rate fight with the CL-13B, and you would barely have the option to get out of it.
R-60 won’t even catch a F-104
What did I just say?
Sure, it has good high-speed nose authority, but it still doesn’t mean you’re going to hit.
yes, as well as things like CL13B Mk6, F-11F-1, J34, Hunter FGA.9, G.91YS, etc.
A-10 has N/A placement, will never be balanced because gaijin refuses to implement methods to do so besides undertiering it in air RB with advanced AAMs. Ideally it goes to a BR in air where it can only mostly shoot at jets with flares in downtiers.
F8U-2, F-8E, MiG-21MF/SMT, Mirage 3 are examples of what it ideally would face in an uptier.
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No F-5C?
How would a CL13B Mk6 beat a competent F-104 pilot?
You’re describing a 1v2 and wondering why you aren’t winning btw. Even so, it isn’t difficult to bait both jets into your rear aspect then reverse both at the same time. You would focus the subsonic btw.
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It is down to you to miss, not the enemy jet to dodge… the F-104 has WAY more nose authority at high speed than is almost ever necessary to achieve kills in head on shots or rear aspect shots. It’s only in side aspect it struggles.
Do you want me to list every jet? I listed things off the top of my head. Yes F-5C would also be fine.
This is the fullest extent as to which we can decompress late transonics/early supersonics without gaijin actually going back and adding the other half of gen1-3 jets into the game that they skipped. (We’re missing a shit ton of jets from that era and if we had them we could decompress so things like the F-104 don’t face subsonics almost at all.
That said even, the CL13B at the very least is a very fast transonic, has extremely good agility, and has 9Bs to try to get a close range rear aspect shot in a reversal on the F-104.
Which is why competent players rarely struggle with dodging F-104 attacks.
???
I literally cannot remember a time anybody other than myself actually turned side aspect pre-emptively to abuse this about the F-104. You are exaggerating the playerbase’s knowledge. Even so, F-104 still holds the cards and the advantages. Best case scenario for a subsonic that can’t catch the F-104 (assuming F-104 pilot isnt bad) is to survive. You aren’t getting the kill unless you chase the F-104 when he rearms.
Yeah, that’s pretty much how it usually goes.
You skipping entire posts?
I think those would be a nice addition that should honestly be here already. The F-104 is more annoying than lethal (from my understanding) at the moment. I can tell by the difference in K/D between your Saggitario compared to your F-104s (other than the later F-104s, such as the F-104G), albeit you have only played 18 battles in the Saggitario. The F-104s are basically untouchable, especially in a full downtier, but if you play right in an agile jet, they shouldn’t be able to touch you either, unless you get slow. This is like what you’re saying here:
Please stop fooling yourself into believing these WT stats matter at all in a vacuum. I played the USA F-104A/C a long ass time ago when it was 10.0 mainly. These stats DO NOT MATTER because the variables are NEVER the same as to when somebody played this or that jet or if they had premium at the time to help spade faster to perform better etc.
Of which I played recently btw, unlike the F-104A/C.
I spaded it in that amount of time with no boosters and only a premium account. That should be all you need to know about this jet when it was 9.0 (as that is when I played it, again, relevant as to WHEN you play something. SOME people played the sagg when it was god damn 8.0 and had 1000 m/s railgun one tap cannons facing Me262s.
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