Shame this topic is constantly effected by such toxic exchanges by certain advocates for Tank Only, so much that discussion is attacked then avoided and they can’t even argue a single point, just insult.
And that includes the OP of this flawed Poll (if you think it is not flawed then prove it, the OP just dismissed his own poll… have a think about that).
Their projection of their own silly thoughts is getting ridiculous now.
-Stop false flagging when you cannot argue your silly opinions.-
This is such a poor discussion with people like the OP attacking anyone that joins in, false trolling accusations, then false flagging.
Well done toxic community members.
The man is a bigot and wants to stop any discussion not carrying his own limited opinion.
The Troll Poll…
Sadly always on public forums there are going to be situations that should not happen. The addition of ‘flagging’ the post that results in hidding it, made new forum a horrible place.
I hope one day, we are going to have a proper place for a good discussion with real evidence, data and respect to one another.
I get arguments but just extra galling to one get accused of trolling (I think you can see what I replied to, and it being a friendly nudge), and two for them to double down on it.
But back to the actual topic if the OP can handle conversations at last without acting so defensive (there was nothing to argue hence the personal attack. Same with the “stat shame” attempt and similar in the misinterpretation of what air and ground modes truly entail).
Sadly it is easier to call someone a troll than to make a proper agument for Your case (I got called that many times and still do)
The problem is that people tend to get emotional and not think twice about what they are writing.
People who want TO get accused of lack of skill quite often, that is why they are so defensive in all discussions. I understand people who like things as they are right now and why they don’t want any change to happen but then I also understand (and support) the side who wants another mode. Both sides should listen to one another and try to understand why their vision of the ‘fun’ in game differs, but here we are
Well said, ULQ.
I might not have said this prior, so I’ll say it now; I may disagree with your proposals, however I do respect you & your capabilities in War Thunder, as well as respect your opinions.
My concerns might never be alleviated through your explanations, and that’s okay.
Just as your concerns might never be alleviated through my perspectives, which I also find okay.
It was just a little silly as the comment in question had nothing to do with sides. But due to previous “emotions” a narrative was set and what was actually said was ignored.
When I first saw the comment I agreed, but upon realising what had been replied to I saw it was not a case of “TO is removing something” but someone commenting on the overall topic which had included removal of airplanes (yes, not a popular option in this poll, but it exists).
That is all. No argument was needed.
See, just some people are extremely toxic and they do not seem to help themselves.
I mean I have clashed with you @ULQ_LOVER many times but we have the decency to remain civil nowadays.
And I know Richardguy can be too yet decided to keep doubling down when he is just blatantly wrong.
Or are you and your best buddy going to show how amazing I am since I get so many kills in, supposedly, GFRB of both air and ground?
I am probably the best player ever with hundreds of air and ground kills in my French Corsair after only about 50 battles (that super popular nation I keep playing) or my super skill in the Do 335 B2!!
The comment that started all this was not a troll and still valid. If you had manned up and just accepted that we could have saved a lot of time. But for some reason you won’t… hmmmm
Honestly Richard, there is NO reason for us to be arguing here. And as I said before from looking at our exchange in another thread I thought rational discussion/comments were back on the table.
Everybody is entitled to have an opinion.
Seeing this statement for prop BRs i completely disagree and assess this frankly said as ******* - the problem is still the extremely low skill level to get A2G kills for mouse aim “wannabe” pilots.
The design approach of gaijin (how to make planes and tanks playable) is simply giving prop planes extreme advantages vs ground vehicles.
Even if you consider this is a video game - the main challenge for ground attack planes in WW2 were:
Irl only a few pilots were able to score hits with cannons - they were not accurate enough and tank kills by plane were extremely rare. This CAS myth is debunked for years - same with the Tiger kill with 0.50 cal hoax…
Everybody knows this. This is no secret.
Gaijin alters reality (but still advertising as accurate) by:
The 3rd person view and the graphics allows easy spotting - combined with artificially increased hit probability (and damage output) of mouse aim every poor pilot can get A2G kills without having any skill - same like for guys flooding Air RB matches and bomb bases…
Even as i am neutral in this case - going for ground units in a prop is like bringing a gun to a fistfight - not everybody’s cup of tea…
I rarely play low BR, so cant comment fully in that area. that being said, where at top tier hitting a fast moving jet with a tanks MG is very hard and no guarantee of much if any damage on a hit, the same is not entirely true of low level Prop based CAS. A well placed burst from a tanks 50 cal could easily bring down a prop plane. This is why I dont think CAS at lower tiers is as much of a problem. SPAA is easier and more effective and everyone has some way to fight back.
Top tier is more reliant on SPAA, but when that SPAA exists, then it is hard work to keep yourself alive and to get weapons on target. But doesnt change the fact though that CAP is way too expensive and could and should be equal in cost to SPAA or at least a heli with AAMs.
Is CAS unrealistic, yes, but so is driving a tank. You arent limited to the drivers view when moving for example, you can also move your gun through objects and peek round corners by angling your camera. So nothing is realistic.
Could CAS be swapped to cockpit only… maybe, but it would be a tough time for a lot of players and those that know what they are doing, isnt going to change much (for the record, i most play SB these days and will swap to cockpit at times when doing CAS at top tier, simply because its more natural for me these days)
Fully agree - my response was explicitly addressing prop tiers.
From a scientific perspective: CAS was before the introduction of guided ammunition a weapon for a few experts, even the famous “Flying Tank” had (in USSR tests) a hit probability of ~5% and due to the necessary angles whilst attacking they barely could pen with their 37 mm…
Real tank kills with cannons were confirmed by 37 mm Stukas and 40 mm Hurricanes in North Africa, but the average pilot was not able to use them effectively.
But you knew that already…
The 0.50 cal issue you describe is the classic “more dakka” approach by the US Army - there was a reason why other nations went for cannons for AA duties as they could carry HE rounds and had superior range.
The effective range for US 0.50 cals implemented in the game is a joke - i mean if i chase somebody in Air RB i score hits up to 1.8 km - and Jengar score hits as a gunner at 2.4 km in his last B-17 video. I recommend this video on yt for the AN/M2. It deals with AA duties in WW2 and axis/allied AA doctrine too…
As written earlier - the spotting advantage and the mouse aim advantage of planes vs tanks in prop tiers in wt leads clear to the following: From a pure neutral perspective it is still easier to kill a tank with a plane than the other way around.
Lower tier has another big problem that no one talks about. In top tier, AAs don’t require any skill since locking and shooting only require two buttons.
In low tier on the other hand, the skill gap between AAs is really visible and important. You can have one team shooting down fighters at 2km while the other one just shoots for two hours at a bomber and can’t manage to hit it …
Wirblewind and BTRs just dominate the sky at this br while the other team just gets steamrolled by CAS.
CAS players claim that they are wasting money, they forget that it is the land players who keep this game alive. Especially for a top tier level land player, the planes are disturbingly powerful. Players who do not have the ability to play in the cockpit view say why you can’t play tanks from the driver’s side. I’m sorry, they don’t even know that there is no aiming from the driver’s side. CAS players only land. He says that if the /land mode comes, the game will end. In fact, land players are 4 times their size, they are only afraid of losing easy targets. Definitely, only land / land mode should be added to this game. Also, it is much more difficult to make land vehicles stronger (even with a premium tank) than air vehicles. We do not want to see you in this. as simple as
how? numbers? money per players?
you can’t prove your claim at this point.
Removing CAS would make the current camping situation way worse. CAS is very very good at catching people who just wall camp barrel clipping.
you want aircraft to use cockpit view - they answer you that to move your tank you’ll have to switch to driver view (which is existing in the game currently).
and you told us that there is no aiming from driver - true
we have no aiming from our turrets either when we drive the plane around - that’s also true
still not true as MANY tank players also are aircrafts players.
and it’s now time to say:
YOU CHOOSED to be a TANK Only player,… while the game offers more variety and insist on it.
so YOU made yourself the prey of many simply because you do not want to use an aircraft (or EVEN an SPAAG/SPAAM systems, in most case of T-O players)
it’s not the game that made that choice for you, you did, and you only.
so i don’t see why the game should be seeing you as an elite players when you plays only 1/4th of the game which are the tanks.
sorry, not sorry bro,… but it’s your choice who made you unable to play, not ours, and not Gaijin one.
Even just swinging past and pinging that guy that is out behind everyone else to let people know that something is over there…
It’s very useful.
yes, then think about this :
most maps have 3 points to captures, with both sides having 3 “good” camping spots watching the 3 areas of the maps, having building in the middle of each capture points.
→ from where are you going to swing around, since the whole map is defendable from snipers spots only and that Gaijin made us unable to drive over the hills, and reduced all the possibilities to 3 main corridors to hold?
without being spotted → impossible
without being aimed and fired at → impossible
without being swarmed once you miraculously reach the side of snipers → unlikely (still possible, when i see how straightforward are Tank players,…)
‘impossible’ is just your opinion… I’m still finding peopel skirting the map without being spotted.
So much so I had someone turn up behind my spawn, and none of the team actually highlighted it, and it took me to engage with them to highlight where they were.
Once they were done they ODLed, so obviously that guy didn’t have any other tactic than spawn rush and hope that no-one seen them.
Cheap tactics only work for so long.