I’m not trying to prove anything by this, though. I’m simply stating that, in my personal experience, there is substantial difference between 3VBM22 and 3VBM23.
Differences like these are reflected in every single DU munition with a Tungsten counterpart.
I don’t see how you’re relevant.
Okay, so you haven’t got any evidence of this.
Differences like these are reflected in every single DU munition with a Tungsten counterpart.
No? KE-W is simply wrong, its weight is modelled after KE-W A1 (a smaller APFSDS, since it’s DM43) with a core weight of 4kg, the actual KE-W would be about ~4.4kg (because logically, a round nearly 100mm longer will weight more, duh), M829A1 is about 4.64kg, a ~0.25kg difference.
I don’t see how you’re relevant.
'Kay, nice seeing you’ve went defensive already.
What would I need the evidence for?
Funny, I don’t see any correlation between KE-W and DM43, although IRL they are almost indistinguishable.
It’s even far superior to it!
EvIdEnCe?
Everything about KE-W in-game equates with GD’s claims of the base KE-W’s performance.
Then again, Australia is currently using KE-W-A2… Gaijin when?
I’m not being defensive. I’m being sarcastic. You’re here whining about how my personal experience that was equated to standing information needs to be substantiated. You’re entirely ignoring the primary point of this conversation, and instead incessantly crying that I need to post evidence.
It’s even funnier when you get combative over this, opting to ignore that DU/Tungsten penetrator counterparts differ from 400-900g.
What?
DM43/KE-W A1:
KE-W:
If you think they’re similar, hats off to you (not really).
EvIdEnCe?
Look at the butthurt lol. On a serious note;
https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/weight-of-cylinder
Take M829A1 dimensions, change density to 17500kg/m^3 (tungsten alloy class 2), there’s your evidence. For KE-W to weight 4kg, it would have to have a density of only 16000kg/m^2, and it would perform worse than L27A1 for that matter.
This gets even better seeing you go “what do I need evidence for”, you’re simply a hypocrite.
Everything about KE-W in-game equates with GD’s claims of the base KE-W’s performance.
Oh really? If you think so, you won’t have any trouble proving that, will you?
You’re here whining about how my personal experience that was equated to standing information needs to be substantiated.
I’ve called you out on your claims, what’s wrong with that? You refused to substantiate them and began to complain about me doing so, even going as far as saying “i’m irrelevant”, that’s not really sarcasm or anything, you simply dislike people disagreeing with you.
It’s even funnier when you get combative over this, opting to ignore that DU/Tungsten penetrator counterparts differ from 400-900g.
Evidence (it’s actually funny how you ignored me originally asking where those claims come from lol).
KE-W =/= DM43, nor does the KE-W in-game represent DM43.
It holds the muzzle velocity and penetration figures of KE-W (M829A1 C2 variant), while working off of the estimated subpenetrator weight.
I’m done trying to rationalize with people like you. I’m not here to prove anything, only have a civil discussion about this topic. If you’re going to cry “prove!!1!” at every statement and speculation I make, then go ahead and prove it by yourself.
Claims of what? Neither 3BM60 nor 3BM59 have concrete figures, and they’re even working off of guesstimation for 3BM46. Seeing the prior raise of ~450g to 3BM46 from other 55cm projectiles, as well as other Tungsten / DU differences, it’s a pretty solid observation.
I didn’t have anything to substantiate to begin with. You butt in on a conversation between me and another while we were spitballing, and you sit here and cry about how I’m not backing up claims of nothing.
It’s called a joke, not a dick. If you need lube for it, you might need a therapist as well.
Are you disagreeing with me? Sorry, I don’t quite see what you’re disagreeing on, as you’re going out of your way to attack my contemplation of the topic.
It has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me, it’s the fact that you’re trying to disprove my opinion.
Yea, you don’t even remember your own words.
It holds the muzzle velocity and penetration figures of KE-W (M829A1 C2 variant), while working off of the estimated subpenetrator weight.
Where do your “penetration figures” come from, please share them.
I’m not here to prove anything, only have a civil discussion about this topic.
Blockquote
The irony.
If you’re going to cry “prove!!1!” at every statement and speculation I make, then go ahead and prove it by yourself.
Got it, all it takes to get you salty is simply asking you to prove your point.
Neither 3BM60 nor 3BM59 have concrete figures
Sorry? NiMi has given us most of the data on 3BM-60, I’ve posted it in this topic to show you that your “opinion” on 3VBM23s weight is wrong.
Seeing the prior raise of ~450g to 3BM46 from other 55cm projectiles, as well as other Tungsten / DU differences, it’s a pretty solid observation .
That is neither solid nor an observation. That’s a far fetched speculation based on comparing projectiles of different builds. A solid observation would be taking 2 completely identical projectiles and comparing their DU & Tungsten variants… like maybe M829A3 & KE-T, the difference between them according to ATK is 0.33kg, less than every “estimate” you’ve presented, and in the ballpark of the difference between actual M829A1, and estimated KE-W (0.28kg).
I didn’t have anything to substantiate to begin with.
Right, so I just wasted my time on a guy with nothing to offer.
It has nothing to do with you disagreeing with me, it’s the fact that you’re trying to disprove my opinion.
There’s a pretty clear difference between what is an opinion and a claim, what you did was claim X KE had Y weight, and stated you’ve “weighted” them at an EXPO (which normally would be considered primary proof), now you’re going back on your word and saying you’ve got nothing to back it up with and that’s it’s an opinion?
Pffft.
Aside from that, this isn’t a private thread, so get over yourself.
I do, and you misinterpreted them. You’re stuck on the thought that KE-W in-game is AcTuAlLy KE-W A1, and not some bastardized model of a nearly unknown sabot.
I said nothing about KE-W being DM43, and you took my statement of “I don’t see any correlation between KE-W and DM43” and decided to knitpick the differences between KE-W A1 and KE-W, for some reason.
Holy shit you’re thirsty.
Again, you had nothing to do with the topic until you butted into a contextualized conversation. Don’t act as if the pretext to my statement was our disagreement, because it isn’t.
Again, I don’t have a point. Stop asserting that I do.
If most of the data is… This? Then sure, subtract the weight of 3VBM23’s 15/1tr-V/A and you have something close to what would be shown at an expo.
Given your difference of M829A3 and KE-T, that would put an estimated 3BM59 at 8.76kg, or 360g higher than 3BM60. So much for a ballpark difference, or being so glaringly less than my “estimate”.
Congratulations! Maybe don’t butt into outside conversations next time and you won’t disappoint yourself.
I’m not claiming to have any concrete proof of it, only that 3BM59 is heavier than 3BM60 by a substantial amount, seeing their shared design. Me “weighting” them at an expo would be far from primary proof, especially since they’re specifically set to be shown to the public. I wouldn’t base anything off of it, the same as people refusing to base 3UBM22 specifications off of expo figures.
What am I going back on? It was my opinion to begin with, and it’s my opinion now.
You can insist all you want that I need to substantiate it, but it’s nothing but a speculative claim. If you want to disappoint yourself further, continue to be a delusional lunatic.
I said that KE-W’s weight matches KE-W A1, and explained what the A1 is (you ignored that), so yea, you’re just putting words in my mouth now.
Holy shit you’re thirsty.
Aha, okay, I see I’m still wasting my time on a guy with nothing to offer.
Again, you had nothing to do with the topic until you butted into a contextualized conversation. Don’t act as if the pretext to my statement was our disagreement, because it isn’t.
“Nooo broo you butted in our discussion that was basically “trust me bro”, how could you!!!11”.
Given your difference of M829A3 and KE-T, that would put an estimated 3BM59 at 8.76kg, or 360g higher than 3BM60. So much for a ballpark difference, or being so glaringly less than my “estimate”.
Yes? Seeing as your lowball was 0.5kg originally (then magically became 0.4), and highball of 0.9kg.
I dunno how you arrived at a 0.36kg difference either, at best a 0.27kg difference (4.25kg - > 4.52kg) since their sabots are identical.
I’m not claiming to have any concrete proof of it, only that 3BM59 is heavier than 3BM60 by a substantial amount, seeing their shared design. Me “weighting” them at an expo would be far from primary proof, especially since they’re specifically set to be shown to the public. I wouldn’t base anything off of it, the same as people refusing to base 3UBM22 specifications off of expo figures.
Okay. So once again, we’ve established you’ve nothing of substance to add to the discussion, just with a lot more words.
You can insist all you want that I need to substantiate it, but it’s nothing but a speculative claim.
“Hey, X thing weighys Nkg”
“Cool, got proof of it?”
“Yea, weighted them at an expo”
“Nice, can you show it, since this states something else”
“No, and I never will”
“I’m not making a claim tho, it’s an opinion”
The irony strikes again.
continue to be a delusional lunatic.
You’re the one who tried to base your “claim” off a bad speculation (not even an assumption) here lol. I’ve had fun watching you make your best attempts at mental gymnastics though, thanks for that (ad hominem is for sad chaps).
See ya.
I said I didn’t see any correlation to KE-W and DM43.
You said:
While posting 2 images of both KE-W A1 and KE-W.
I’m not putting words in your mouth, I’m pointing out something that doesn’t make sense to me, nor seems relevant to what I said.
Whose fault is that?
What “trust me bro” conversation? We were contemplating the existence of 3BM59 and its relevance over 3BM60. It’s an infallible fact to say that 3BM59 is more effective than 3BM60, which is the point I made.
I quite literally said “half a kilogram” as a generalization. The same way I’d call .338LM .338, though being .339. The same way 6.8mm is .278, not .277. They’re generalized terms that were put in place before any thought or deviation of the original product was made.
Exactly that. A lowball. Sorry that I’m not a statwhore like you.
I’ve told you this what, 4 times now? Fuck off.
You sure love to misspell “weighed”, don’t you?
The topic is not of the exact weight of 3BM59. It’s of its relevance over 3BM60. I have no reason to dig after exact figures of the weight past my own vague experiences, because I couldn’t give less of a shit about the weight and that was not the topic of the matter.
If you want the exact weight and differences of 3BM59, go find them. I’m not the person to talk to.
I don’t have a claim about 3BM59. If you want me to make a claim off of this conversation and the prior one to this, it would be that 3BM59 is more effective than 3BM60 due to its material differences.
Good riddance. You’re a waste of time and effort.
Don’t wanna be that guy but the new 6.8x51 round’s civilian version is called .277 Fury
Its designation is .277, hilariously enough it’s .278 and its tail end is .270.
I’ve seen figures for it to reach about 630ish mm of pen just going off of the mangos penetration reduction formula.
Does anyone have any ideas on which vehicles the USSR could get with spike style weapons? Because the only possibility is either Czech vehicles or some other nation.
Domestic? 3UBK25 Sokol-V for T-14.
Interesting, thank you.
Some more to continue the TD line after the 9P157-2 which is currently the end of the line.
Isn’t Kornet-EM just knockoff Hellfire Longbow? It would be interesting but people seem violently opposed to the Longbow so I doubt we’d see it anytime soon
(Especially 16x of them on one vehicle)
There is no Kornet capable of fire-forget
