full frame seekers cannot possibly provide the same accuracy. thats just how it is with lenses and a sensor. you get the same effect when shining a laser at your phone(dont try that).
the special thing about IRIS-T is that it physically doesnt “look” at everything.
This article is a summary of a research paper written by the same author on the resistance of IIR missiles to DIRCM. The conclusion is that full frame seekers appear to be highly resistant to DIRCM.
A DIRCM system doesn’t block out the whole seeker image on an IIR missile:
Even when very high power lasers are pointed directly into the seeker the seeker still produces a clear enough image to allow for home on jam:
There are other research papers online that also back up the claim of conventional DIRCM being ineffective against IIR seekers.
Here is the full paper by the person who wrote the article. This is the concussion:
The first section of this paper illustrated the capability of an imaging seeker to track as long as any target feature is detected, even in the presence of a large area masked by a jamming laser. The second section showed that the laser jamming signal does not saturate all of the focal plane and therefore the jammer (and target) location is still detectable, even when there is sufficient jamming energy to cause damage to the focal plane. It seems that the future countermeasures for imaging seekers are more like a DEW (Directed Energy Weapon) than a jammer, and such technology will soon be within reach13. Until DEW are used, the data shown above leads to the conclusion that simple laser jamming or dazzle will not be effective against imaging seekers.
thats pretty cool ig
i wonder if this is affected by the lenses
I have a question about FOV gating. For missiles that we have in-game with FOV gating (R-27(E)T, Magic 2, R-73), what happens when a missile is initially locked onto a target and still on the rail (before launch)? Does the seeker head remain with a wide FOV until it is launched, or does the seeker shrink down the FOV the moment it acquires a target, even if it is still on the rail?
Judging by the lock circle HUD in-game, the seeker remains wide while on the rail. How does this work IRL?
so for crossed array detectors like the R-73 the way they work is its an FM style seeker divided into 4 detectors in the shape of a cross (hence crossed array detector) each of these detectors are very thin which the game acknowledges by making these missiles have an IFOV thats also very tight. The way the crossed array detector IRL works is it tries to keep the frequency a signal appears in each detector as it spins around in a circular motion constant. So the way these detectors ignore flares is if a flare enters one detector it sends a signal but since the flare is not the target the frequency between the last signal in the previous detector and the next changes, this offsets the image and the seeker counteracts this by comparing to the control signal (previous cycles where the target was centered) and adjusts accordingly quickly filtering out the flare. Also since the detectors are so small flares leave them very quickly so adjusting is a simple task. IRL the best way to counter these detectors was to dump flares because by flooding all the detectors with this new signal they cannot properly adjust and as such cannot tell apart the signals recieved from the original target and the flares
In this image basically imagine the image crossing each detector at relatively the same point, when it does this the time it does so is at a constant frequency, when it becomes off set because something else crossed the detector at a different point the image offsets which increases or decreases the frequency of signals recieved which will cause an adjustment to fix that to return to the constant frequency.
TLDR is basically how war thunder does it where detectors are so small individual flares quickly leave the detector (IFOV)
IRL the “FOV” or Boresight in this case is the scanning pattern, it will go around in a pattern until it finds a target and once all 4 detectors are aligned tone is given and fire away.
Am I correct in thinking that the R-73 seeker first scans in a wide pattern (nutates?) and once it finds a heat source it snaps onto it and remains on axis (like in the image)? Would that not mean that once the seeker has snapped onto the target the game should reflect it by narrowing the seeker FOV we see in the game (I am talking about the small circle inside the big circle getting smaller)?
That is how it should work. Same goes for all of these missiles which have FoV reduction. Without this, pre-flaring is more effective.
Aster 15/30 does have thrust vectoring on the booster and lateral thrusters on the “terminal dart”
sources are few tho, and i don’t know how reliable they really are.
one of them mention it here
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1270963816307003
as for mica it can turns pretty well (not going to get into the debate of which turns best, but it should do the job) :
and VL version (one launch at the end with a pretty tight turn)
someone please suggest the Aim-9L I-1 for the german tornados man…
do you want them to go to 12.3?
i doubt that giving two aim-9Ms to the tornados will grant them that br,
but if it will,
i guess we can restrict it for the Tornado ECR, the F4F-ICE and the EF Typhoon
i accept that they are still capable airframes and maybe your argument is overall more realistically sound/viable, but i would still like to see the only german fox 1 before the IRIS-T on at least somthing.
as for the ECR, i think once ARMs are introduced, that jet will have a place
we will most likely get the 9L/i and maybe 9L/i-1 but i dont think itll be on any airframe thats in game right now.
as for the ECR, the ASSTA3 carries HARMS so theres no point in adding the ECR which is worse in every way as EW is not modeled in WT and probably will never be
my apologies, i was under the assumption that the ASSTA 4 and ECR had a similar weapons capability
We have a primary source stating it can turn 100 degrees a second. I’m sure some of the other missiles like IRIS-T can turn better but there’s the benchmark if you were looking for it.
The IRIS-T is better in short range (maneuvrability) compared to the ASRAAM thanks to a combinaison of bigger flight surface, TVC and thurst control.
Indeed the IRIS-T can control its thrust so when the missile is initialy launched, the IRIS-T has very low thurst so the missile can turn toward the target very quickly with the use of TVC and it’s control surface.
Thanks to this, it’s the quickest missile to do a 180° it also has one of the smallest (if not the smalles) WEZ (Weapon Engagement Zone) meaning it’s minimum range is really low.
The ASRAAM from what i found online is a 50G missile which is already very impressive. It can also do a 180° turn but since it doesn’t use TVC and it has a very strong acceleration it turn a lot less of the rail compared to the IRIS-T.
The ASRRAM is really optimised, motor wise, thurst wise and aerodynamicaly wise to have the longuest range possible while also be very good at dogfight.
On the other hand the IRIS-T is relly optimised for dogfigth and will be the scarriest missile when you’re close to an ennemy with it.
Anyways the G* limit is one thing but having more G doesn’t mean the best maneuvrabilty. A missile going MACH 3 with 50G is going to bigger turn radius than a missile doing MACH 1.5 with 30G.
And the IRIS-T with it’s TVC (Very good G pull), low initial thrust (= low speed so easy to turn) and big control surface can turn very well and quick of the rail.
But no worries the ASRAAM is also VERY capable dogfigthing wise and has two time the max range of the IRIS-T
Sure - but what I’m saying is that the extra manoeuvrability the IRIS-T has reduces the effective minimum range, but the ASRAAM is already manoeuvrable and powerful enough to hit anything inside its envelope. It already has a very small minimum effective range. At the other end of the scale however, the maximum range envelope of the ASRAAM dwarfs all other IR missiles, not just the IRIS-T.
We agree on that, just that the WEZ of the IRIS-T is smaller than the one of the ASRAAM (especally for HOBS) and it can be very usefull when you’re in rolling scissor very close dogfight.
The R-27T/ET and especially the MICA IR (+ MICA IR NG) would like to talk to you :)
(Well the R-27ET is better kinematically but has a worse seeker and cannot use inertial guidance → is only LOBL so less range effectively than a MICA or an ASRAAM)
