Yeah I had that too… it was fun, couldn’t even report the issue privately to a moderators. I thought I was just soft banned.
1 Like
its so us dose not become op and 1 sided like Germany or Russian is rn.
they dont want us to have bias
mb i meant to say Russian at the time
early 2000’s right? pretty much the same as the su25BM and SM3 models, but i might be wrong on that
When you talk about aircraft like the F-16 and F-15 outclassing Su30 and above variants which are also from the 1990s design aspect. How do they actually outclass them? In several dogfighting exercises like Copa India 2004 or 2005 Su 30mkis did indeed win hypothetical scenario dogfights. This is of course only a training exercise not an actually engagement. However this tells me that characteristics wise su 30s and above are at least equal if not better than legacy fighters in many aspects, airframe turn radius and maneuverability. This does not mean the legacy f-16s and f-15s dont have pluses but stating that they are far behind is not true. Look at the AL-41F engine how is that way behind the F-15 and 16s engines?
Was mostly talking abotu missile performance and not airframe performance
ASRAAM/IRIS-T/MICA IR on the European delta-canards outperforms Aim-9X/R-74
Later model Aim-120s such as Aim-120C5/C7 outclasses R-77-1
Meteor outclasses R-37/Aim-120D
So F-15C with historically correct loadout from when it got HMD in 2007 vs Su-27SM with historically accurate loadout from when it entered service in 2003 is a pretty one sided fight. Especially as the F-15C would also have AESA and far more CMs thanks to BOL.
However that being said. Typhoon/Rafale would likely beat the Su-30 quite readily in most regimes and likely also in loadout.
1 Like
OK su 27sm and sm3 variants are only there as programs to get state funding, everyone knows that they are not real upgrades over the su27 base version aircraft. I think the Su27sm was only a side track program which was a rather rudimentary upgrade program. Even though it happened in the 2000s it is an outdated program that should have never really occurred since it did not drastically improve the aircraft’s performance. A lot of funding was cut in the 1990s hence the reason for the lack of upgrades in Russia and later introduction of technologies. Us never experienced such economic downturn and has constantly expanded the budget and funding for projects, that is the fundamental difference maker as to why the su27s fell behind and only the 30s and above which are also su27s truly addressed the technological gap. Comparing block 52s and above to su27sms is not a fair comparison.
Typhoons and Rafaels are Europe’s best planes they are ahead of the Su30s not sure about the the SU30Sm2 the newest version. They should be compared to the Su35 or Su57s since they are Russias best fighters. Su 30 was designed to compete against legacy fighters f-16s and 15s I dont think its main purpose was to engage the Typhoons or Rafaels.
Training scenarios should never be used to measure an aircrafts performance, as the point of an exercise is to test “what would happen in this situation?” where one side is often gimped in some way. You see this all the times when the Rafale, EF or F-15 suposedly “wins” against an F-35 or F-22 where for the sake of exercising and not having a curbstomp you can’t study, the F-35/22 are heavily gimped in that they start in an extremely unfavourable situation and that they are not allowed to do a lot of things whilst the opposing side has no restrictions whatsoever.
I agree with you on that one , training exercises are not a realistic scenarios, that is why I pointed it out as such. Yes the F-22 vs Rafael is definitely not a measured exercise favours the Rafael why more. As for the Copa India it was more realistic since the disadvantage was BVR engagements and Radars being used to maximum capacity. However, the airframe and engines used on the SU 30 is definitely not decades behind legacy fighters. In fact the Al-41fs are excellent engines. But F-15 with upgraded radar and engines is a better fighter than F-35. Twin engine, better survivability and greater missile load , higher velocity too.
1 Like
What I meant to say is that Copa India 2004 or 2005 was within BVR without radars being used at maximum capacity.
Spoken as if it’s a fair fight in game right now
Its not, this entire thread is focusing more on the CAS gameplay.
ADATS is woefully behind Pantsir and AGM-65 is woefully behind KH-38. Soviets have a MASSIVE advantage because they have newer tech. (likely to only be increased next major update if the soviets get a supersonic aircraft to carry the KH-38s)
As for A2A in ARB, Soviets may have slightly worse ARH, but that is made up for in the fact they have 12x AAMs on their top tier fighter and the ability to take an array of missiles including better dogfighting IR Missiles, excellent short range ARH missiles, the best SARH missile in game and the only long range IR Missile in game. This puts them ahead of aircraft like the Gripen which can only take 6x AAMs and are massively hamstrung by the state of BOL. Aircraft like the F3, FA2, AV-8B+ and ICE are all well and truly behind both the F-15C and Su-27SM by a significant amount.
Considering they’ll probably get R-77-1s next major update on soemthing like the Su-30. We’ll return to soviet dominance again like what we had to deal with fighting the Mig-23MLD without counter for over a year and then R-27ER dominance for nearly as long with the Mig-29.
1 Like
Sure Adats is not at the same level as pantsir and agm-65 is worse than KH-38. But you can still use the new Harrier (AV-8 premium) and achieve success plus if you have Israel as an ally the Blackhawk helli with Spike missiles can also cause damage. I have destroyed pantsir on several occasions using the spike missile (Blackhawk), just need some in the air to keep the pantsir at bey.
So to play Britain or US you are dependent on having someone in a Israeli Blackhawk to spam Spikes?
Not ideal if you dont have an Israeli teammates. Im really hoping that hte leaks are true and Britian can get the Torando Gr4 with 18x Brimstones to spam at the Pantsir, would be good to finally have something to counter them.
1 Like
Ngl 1995 was a fun time 😂
I am just giving you examples of what can counter the pantsir, I understand its much harder for us and britain cas to counter it (pantsir), but low level harrier flying within 5km range and the pantsir player wont notice you until last second so wont really be able to intercept the agm-65 missile. Flying high and using the sm3 strategy wont work as much since higher level of missile intercept probability. I think Britain will most likely get credible cas in the future.
Do you mean Cope India?
yes
1 Like
I’ve already embarrassed somebody on the spot with 3 back to back matches of me outdoing Pantsirs and ITOs in American CAS.