Why the stigma around 16v16 top tier ARB? just have fun and learn

Just wait until it’s 16 v 16 and each plane has 4 or more ARH Missiles


actually excited for that TBH, plenty more reasons to fly low, learn to use chaff, and pull more notches, which frankly no one really notches now a days (i myself dont do it much but ive seen it used to great effect)

16 vs 16 is fine in a high mobility jet built to brawl. If you are in a missile truck that has a turning radius of a battleship, then 16 vs 16 brawls suck. Especially on such tiny maps. Its why I spend most of my time in SB. you get the odd furball, but most engagements are rarely bigger than 1v1 or 2v2. Means if you are in a missile truck, you have room to maneuver and to engage on your own terms

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defining a missile truck in my eyes real quick:

  • any phantom
  • tomcat
  • tornado
  • maybe the Yak-141

i agree with the missile truck statement to it being harder, when i play either phantom or tomcat i kite HARD and stay far away from the furball, and while the F14 has some dogfight capability, the phantom and tornado dont, as they are both true interceptors, as for the yak-141, ive seen some crazy shit done with its VTOL but its uncommon to see that.

Im britain main, so Tornado F3. Even in SB with 128kmx128km of room and 1v1 engagements, it feels outclassed. Spend most of my time in the Harrier Gr7 or Sea Harrier FRS1 these days because at least they can turn fight if the need arises.

Smaller team sizes or bigger maps in ARB would certainly help the interceptors

Theres just too much stuff going on. Even in <10.7 16v16 is way too much, its impossible to have a good 1v1, and 80% of the time the match ends as a 1v4+. There is too much going on.


the tornado really needs a better replacement as yes, Britain is under capable in top tier air.

however the only replacement id see is a eurofighter which, like the SU-27 or the JAS-39, may have to wait

when they give us the F15 i hope for the MIG-31 or the MIG-25

Yeah, the other reason i spend my time in SB. I find it exhausting tryign to keep track of what the hell is going on around me all the time. Fine and even fun in a spitfire, but at top tier I dont get how anyone manages more than a few games before developing a nasty headache

only towards the end you really get a good dogfight chance, which ive been gifted with a few fun times like those, all really crucial moments in how i play now as learning

Yeah… Quite a few reckon Gripen next major update with AMRAAM. Possibly to britain too via South Africa, but It would suck to need a commonwealth addition because they dont want to give us something actually good that was British Built

An early/prototype Typhoon might have suffecient handicaps to be viable sooner rather than later but I hope they jump ahead. Its untenable to trickle in stuff and leave nations behind. Typhoon, F-15, Su-27/Su-30, Gripen and J-10 would reset the playing field and give all nations something viable top tier

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I like your optimism, but at best UKs Tornado F.3 will get AIM-120 AMRAAMS, Germany will Suffer get F-4F ICE and China’s J-8F will get updated with PL-11s.

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Yeah, Im hoping for the Sea Harrier FA2 actually. Will still be FAR from “Meta”, but I think more fun than the F3 at this point

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It’s really really funny reading the “Get gud” post of someone with barely 500 RB games and most of those games in the F-4S and now an F-16. The entire top tier community that’s been there for 1000s of hours is asking for change. A few outliers are saying “Get gud” or “We don’t need change” but for the most part without being rude, I don’t need someone who bought their way to top tier and a below 1.0 KDR telling me how I just need to get gud when statistically I am above average, 16v16 in 12.3 is absurd, games last 2 minutes, furball is 90% of the players options the other 10% being “Oops I missed the fight everyone’s already dead”.

I understand you’re still in your honeymoon phase with top tier, and don’t get me wrong I love top tier, but 16v16 is nothing even just compared to old 12v12, I doubt you even got to try or you would have noticed the literal instantaneous switch back to furball mode.

We need real positive change, we need 16v16 gone, we need an alternative not complete swap to an RB EC, we don’t need a new vehicle outside of non US/Rus for a few updates so there is nothing stopping Gaijin from working out the kinks on a new game mode which if you polled it I guarantee you most top tier players want it.


There’s no skill issue, every game is just dumb luck. Specially with the new missiles, the furballs are too chaotic with 16v16. It’s impossible to keep track of what’s going on. Because all games end in 5 mins with the furball, there’s no room for BVR or dogfights which is what makes jet fighters fun. And if you decide to stay away from the furball you’ll end up facing half the enemy team when your team gets decimated in the furball. That’s why a team size reduction is needed, and it will be even more needed in the future.

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Higher skill ceiling? Yeah, the skill ceiling is so high with exactly one (1) playstyle being available since the moment you go off the deck you get 3 sarh missiles lobbed at you or you turn to engage someone and immediately get 3rd partied because you’re below mach. With 12 v 12 you were at least able to get off the deck since you weren’t coping with a stream of sarh missiles coming at you. Yes, you’d still have people throwing sarh missiles at you, but 25% less people in the air actually gives you a chance to chaff/notch or dodge them. More mistakes to learn from? The three mistakes you can make 1. You went highter than 50m off the deck. 2. You weren’t constantly looking around for the 9M/R73 that’s bound to get rammed up your ass. 3. You didn’t cling to the left side of the map at the beginning with your team and got mauled by the swarm of enemy jets. More experiences to pack into one match? I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve had a actual dogfight with someone, even counting 2 v 1 and 3 v 1 situations. 99% of it is lobbing a missile at someone not paying attention in the furball or at someone who’s not hugging the deck. I don’t even get a chance to make more friends because I can’t do basic team tactics like baiting most of the time. The reason being is that everyone is too busy just trying not to die to someone slipping a missile at them the moment they look away.

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This phrase is only ever used to attempt to deny real issues in favor of “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality.


People have thought about it for a long time and have came to the conclusion that large matches aren’t as fun as smaller matches. It doesn’t matter if you see some sort of upside here. They just aren’t as fun.


None of that is going to happen. What IS going to happen, is there will be more than 1 ARH missiles launched at you, and you aren’t going to be dodging or avoiding them.

I am picturing taking off in a Typhoon, locking onto an enemy aircraft that has just taken off as well, and fiirng a Meteor at them within the first 30 seconds of the match :P

I do think we are rapidly approaching a point where ARB is going to need some love.

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i agree with EC being needed in ARB, i tried out Air SIM EC and even tho i died alot due to just using mouse joystick and my actual joysticks being not ready for me to use in battle yet withought serious piloting issues, i still got 1 player kill which felt alot more rewarding than 4 Air RB kills, and i have full confidence an EC mode in Air RB would set this game straight for alot of things

the F16C has excellent strike capabilities as well considering its wide array of GBUs, Napalm, rockets and AGMs, but it being hard locked to really air combat in Air RB diminishes those traits, which the F16C is the best fighter in the game, but again, can be a fighter bomber and excel.

the MIG-29 also has some strike capability but isnt designed for it, unlike the YAK-141 which looks better to use if it had guided bombs.

and the tornado literally has strike varients, so does the tomcat, so does the mirage, viggen, and the barak 2 is a strike focused F16.

the only nations with not much strike capability other than an F16 is china and japan. but those will come in time :)

in all end, i understand I’m not the most experienced in top tier yet, and id like to see more variety, more mattering reasons to do anything but get kills, and also make kills matter more.

i hope gaijin fixes these things in time, especially before AMRAAMs and more modern F15s/SU27s/etc etc are added

Sounds good, then you realise that 3x nations will be getting the Typhoon, France will have the Rafale and Sweden the Gripen… they will ALL be lobbing Meteors as soon as they take off.