While I get that the take might seem weird and a bit exaggerated, being able to not only fire your missiles at ground targets, but also having cannons, does add a certain sense of security that does tend to have players let their guard down more than they would in a Type 81.
Things like driving even remotely close to enemy vehicles or even into a point is unthinkable for most Type 81s due to the absolutely felt vulnerability. A Pantsir, while certainly not a go-to TD is absolutely less cautious than a Type 81 is.
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I’m sure you understand that this is basically unfounded?
I think we should have just unequivocally agreed when we said it would have been nice for the Type 81 to stay at 11.0, but that we understand why it went up. Arguments against Gaijin’s handling of the situation are up to the individual.
But I’m personally not going to let you make those claims about the Pantsir - since it seems quite obvious that they’re meant to be deflections surrounding the statistics of both vehicles (both having great stats, but the Type 81 having better ones). All of your arguments around the Pantsir’s guns somehow lowering its stats have been moot, and I’m not going to let that go.
I do agree it makes no sense to say that anyone would run around in a Pantsir as a tank destroyer, mainly since it still is a large truck. The point I’m seeing here though is that players generally don’t play as cautiously as a Type 81 would since they do have some form of self defense in case something does go wrong.
I fully agree, though I’d still think it’d be nice if Gaijin would roll back the change, despite the low chance of it ever happening.
The stats aren’t lowered by the guns alone, at least in my opinion. What I rather see as lowering Pantsir stats are a combination of many factors. For example it being a major nation vehicle, played my less experienced players, or it possessing missiles that can miss due to human error, rather than guiding themselves after launch.
Anything with the VT-1 missiles can also defend itself
The Type 81 can not, soo…
the Pantsir is a literal truck .
A truck with literal guns as well… and opposed to what?
I use the PGZ04A at 10.0 and up exclusively against ground vehicles in it.
The Pantsir/2S6 guns are also far superior to the PGZ04A
The abundance of targets you can penetrate is the same at both BRs
I have never seen a Pantsir player ever push to use it as a tank destroyer.
Pantsir having guns is not affecting its stats in any way - because people are not pushing with it.
The PGZ04A, where I personally constantly push with my guns
So let me get this straight, the Pantsir has better guns than the PGZ, it has the same amount of targets available to it, you exclusively use the PGZ against ground targets and constantly push with your inferior guns… but somehow using the Pantsir with better weapons against the same targets is impossible, you have never seen it happen, it’s irrelevant to statistics despite your use of the PGZ resulted in you
having my stats ruined because of it
But it doesn’t ruin the Pantsir stats because it doesn’t happen because it’s a truck chassis?
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By your own logic, if I show you a Sherman with a higher KD than a modern battle tank, then clearly that means it should be the same BR or higher right?
Obviously not tho, because we understand that it in a different environment and is playing by different rules effectively.
In the case of a Type 81, the main reason it does so well at its own NR is more or less because of the spam of premium pilots who don’t know what they are doing, and simply fly high and take no precautions. Likewise the Pantsir is more often than not fighting more modern planes with more skilled pilots, like the F-16C, and is therefore going to have a rougher time, but if the Type 81 also moved up to 11.7, it would be far worse than the Pantsir due to a lack of radar and range.
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It’s already at 11.7 essentially as there are no lineup options at 11.3.
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In context of typical WT GRB, upcoming ARH missiles already have ±15km own radar lock range, so they might be able to pretty much instantly detect and track planes on their own after launch. Even if they couldn’t due to range and/or lower radar return, they probably could be just launched with inertial guidance “fly in that direction with seeker on and see if you find anything” style.
Datalink is useful/needed for guiding missiles at long ranges and I’m not sure if ground launched early ARH we will be getting can be relied upon to go past 10-15km.
They can very much lock before launch, the vehicle sight has the range to designate the target for them. What it needs the separate vehicle for is only datalink guidance.
And I really hope they are upcoming.
They can actually, official JGSDF specification states self search capability for both seeker types so this is a feature that can even be added to the current missile for some extra range.
It probably can’t unless they add the self searching and launch without lock. Though I believe estimated lock range would be ~14km (anyone correct me if I’m wrong though) for the radar seeker, which is still very good.
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Best reason why it shouldnt be 11.3.
A Drone 8-9km away in the clear blue sky and perfectly visible but i canot lock it until it got to 5.5 km.
This literally killed my Brother XD because i couldnt fire the dame missile at it.
Photo whould have bin bedder if it showed my green lock but sadly it doesnt
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Datalink would be irrelevant due to claustrophobic-tier size of maps in GRB. Toying with datalink might see some use during opening stage of ARB match, but otherwise most of the combat will occur within 15km range, where missile seeker will instantly activate and track on its own.
Thats how currently Phoenixes operate and were operating for last two years AFAIK, with or without datalink missile seeker is active and searching for stuff. Datalink merely updates target location, so missile can account for target maneuvers and perhaps ignore unwanted radar contacts before its own seeker starts tracking.
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It could be useful considering if the target does somehow manage to shake the missiles PESA radar it can fall back on LOAL commands and datalink course correction of the ground based AESA.
Though with the Type 81 that sadly is exclusively mounted to another vehicle, so for it to be relevant as a mechanic we’d have to wait for Type 11 FCS with towed launcher, at which point the datalink would do nothing more than provide backup to an already insanely hard to shake missile mounted AESA radar.
Yep, without FCS vehicle to provide post launch commands the missiles would essentially function like that without any external inputs (obviously). Sadly we currently can’t launch the missiles without lock, this feature would really help counter low flying helicopters as the missile could fly into IR range, find the target and destroy them past the 4km range you’d otherwise get out of the IR band if you’re lucky.
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That would be the Type 81 A or B, C was specifically for the ARH missile IIRC. Gaijin once again has naming wrong.
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Gaijin entertainment peak developing
These cannot be used independently unlike Type 81 mod.(C) and there is indeed an “early” Type 81 mod.(C), though the only difference to the one in-game would be the truck its based on.
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Are we talking about the Type 81 missile, or the Type 81 truck lol
i love japanese equipment naming!
Now Japan has a top tier SPAA like italy does…lol
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Isn’t the Pantsir also supposed to work with a radar and command post and not operate independently?
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type 81 C is the model of the weapon station and the missile, but its technically incorrect but at the same time correct to call the truck a type 81C but i feel it would be more correct to call it depending on the models For example, there are the SAM-1B and the SAM-1C, which included upgrades to the Isuzu truck
So the Type 81C (truck) gained the ability to function independently, but can still use the SAM-1B and C? I’ve seen pictures with both missiles on the same vehicle.
i believe the one ingame its wrong since the SAM-1C was supossed to include upgrades mainly so it could fire the ARH missiles technically we should have the SAM-1B but its mainly system changes so it is able to connect to external systems to fire the ARH
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