hit the charge and its going to blow just like with an APHE shot.
hit the projectile its not going to have anything to detonate
sidenote but if HESH is hit it wont explode either, gaijin got this very wrong
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Strong disagree.
Tortoise maxes at 20kph and has sifnificantly less HP/T compared to the JT. It turns better due to it shorter profile, but it is slower.
APHE>>>> AP. Especially since 84mm AP isn’t the most reliable OHK and the reload is still longer than the US 90mm or German 88.
JT weak points can largely be hidden by hull down. MG port isn’t even all that reliable. Tortoise weak points are both huge and at the top of the tank, so they are always visible. You don’t need HEAT or APCR for the tortoise armor, a lot of the APHE and AP rounds of the BR are perfectly fine. Hit HG cupola and you can kill most of the crew.
Brits 6.7 is weaker than Germany or US and i’ll still take Japan’s STAs over anything brits get.
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Either it’s the only 6.7 you play or you’re enjoying being the forum contrarian a little too much.
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The latter
USA sure. Germany it’s as good.
This is objectively better than Japan’s 6.7 lineup:
And you can put in M109A1 instead of Centurion Mk2 and you have the best ground arcade lineup as well.
@llSolitairell-psn 's post claiming that defending Britain’s tech tree makes people contrarian is wild.
I honestly wish the A.34 Tortoise could receive the Shot Mk. 3 APDS for its 94mm 32-Pdr Q.F. gun since the Maus did receive its experimental PzGr-TS shell as compensation buff struggling at its BR a while back.
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Casemates suppose to be a sniper, but not with that 1x scope of tortoise, even the reload and good penetration can’t offset all the weaknesses lol at the same br the Jadgtiger and Ferdinand simply better overall
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I don’t think you will find a single other person on this forum that would agree with you. All of those tanks are average-below average except for the charioteer. Ratels are both hilariously bad. Huge, slow, mediocre weapons. Seriously, just compare it to a STA.
The problem with the tortoise specifically is the number of weak points and the small advantage you gain for losing the turret. You have a weak point in the cupola at 120mm. You have a weak point in the MG port at 140mm. You have a weak point in the lfp at 160mm. No tank at 6.7 struggles with any of these. You can’t hide all of these.
And what do you gain? 32lber is worse than the D-10S that the SU-100 gets at 6.0. And thats not even a good tank. You get autocannon resistance across most of your sides and front, but being a fixed arc TD you can’t take advantage of that easily. You get shot in the sides, you are probably getting tracked and can’t respond. At least the JT is getting a gun that pens and OHKs anything even in a full upteir and the T95 is getting effective armor (cupola weak point is still 200mm).
Brit tree is awful. They have only a few BR clusters left that produce >50% wrs and i think the highest win rate across all BRs is 51%. 6.7 is not one of them. Now 7.7-8.7 is legit good and has a lot of advantages over its competition, but 6.7 you are playing with tanks that are strictly worse than their competition with little to no positive traits.
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Your final paragraph is complaining about the skill of British players [win rates].
Win rates are a team skill matter, nothing to do with individual vehicles.
I have more presets for Britain than I do USSR, because Britain has more fun BRs.
I also learned APCR back in 2019/2020 which made me even better with APDS and standard AP.
I understand your feelings.
Just cause APHE/APCBC over-performs post-pen does not mean APDS, AP, etc are “unusable”.
After all, they are the BRs they are because of their current capabilities. At the end of the day I’ve one-shot more tanks with Tortoise than I’ve multi-shot. Same goes for T26E5 and I only use APCR on that.
A skill curve being steeper does not make the vehicle worse.
Britain’s slowest firing tank for the lineup is the Tortoise, and that thing’s faster at reloading than T-44-100 with the best gun angles of casemates.
Technically G6 but that’s not really a tank.
By all means voice your opinions about the steeper learning curve behind solid shot rounds.
It took me far longer to learn APCR than it did to learn PzGr 39 and Mk8 rounds.
Mk8 took longer than M61.
So you don’t think vehicle capabilites have anything to do with win rates… interesting. While there are a lot of ppl grinding germany first, no one is grinding brits first. If anything, the average brit player IS more skilled, the vehicles are just that bad.
‘i learned APCR’ is just saying you know where to shoot for weak points. Congrats. Thats about the average lv 100 player. The round is still garbage with the worst postpen of any shell type and a good chance of shattering even on perfectly placed shots.
APDS and AP aren’t unusable, but you have to have something on the tank that makes them better than APHE firing alternatives. The tortoise has nothing to compensate. Its just a mediocre gun on a bad platform.
Firing angle isn’t a huge advantage. still worse than any turret and it isn’t going to save you if you are getting penned in any of your weak points.
There is no justification for brit BRs at the moment. Most brit tanks got moved up when volumetric was added and they had extremely favorable volumetric models. Thats been corrected, but their br was never moved down. Instead they saw the centurion mk3 go from 6.7 to 8.0 over the course of the years while hesh is still non-functional and APDS isn’t great. Literally, when thunderskill had access to the WT API and could pull exact stats from the entire playerbase, the centurion mk3 had a 45% wr and 1.2kdr and got moved from 7.0 to 7.3. Literally no justification.
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I wish I knew that. Britain was the first country I did tanks for. Between British tanks and American planes, I was taking breaks for weeks every month because of how dreadful they are.
Unfortunately Gaijin bases everything on stats instead of how things should be balanced. That’s why Germany has all their stuff undertiered by a minimum of 0.3 for everything. Every single German vehicle should be higher, but it is not because German players are filled with noobs who single handily keep the BRs down. It’s why Germany is so popular with seal clubbers.
The unfortunate part is when Britain and France constantly get their BRs screwed around just because the players are competent. Even excluding the Fox, Britain is constantly shafted with BR changes every update because even though Gaijin purposely nerfs Britain and France, the players adapt and overcome, and are punished for it.
Some examples:
A-10, despite being more advanced than the Sea Harrier, with AGMs and a bigger payload, is 10.3, meanwhile the Sea Harrier is stuck at 11.0 with a terrible payload and no AGMs.
American F-4s have superior missiles and a better payload (utilising napalm, unlike Britain who doesn’t get napalm), and can equip IR bombs. However, British Phantoms get shafted and are stuck at the same BR, despite the American ones being far better.
Americans being able to use TV/IR guided AGMs at 10.3, while Britain can only use laser guided munitions at 14.0
American ADATS has a gun. British ADATS got nerfed and has no gun. Same BR for no reason.
I could go on, but I believe I made my proof. American and German mains get everything handed to them and are rewarded for being bad. British and French players are punished for being competent.
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Ad populum fallacy… what is popular isn’t inherently what is best.
Popularity has nothing to do with what’s best.
Sweden was the least popular tech tree and still is among the least popular tech trees, yet it has been the best top end since 2020.
If the average British player was more skilled, then the win rate would indicate that.
Remember when people claimed Soviet tech tree was 70% win rate? That’d be an indication of player skill. Today it’s sitting around 50% and nothing has changed to their tanks since they were introduced; the only factor that has changed is where the players go.
You don’t need much post pen if you hit ammo, modules, or crew.
Post pen can be a nice to have if I have a momentary skill issue though.
If a round shatters on me it’s cause I had a massive skill issue in aiming.
Volumetric was added years prior to British tanks moving around.
Volumetric has never changed since introduction, as there’s nothing to change; it was implemented correctly.
I think what you mean to say is enemy players got better at aiming, which is what I did as well.
Thunderskill could never pull from the entire playerbase, you’re thinking Statshark. Thunderskill was always manual application, which is why monthly stats of vehicles never exceeded 100,000 battles let alone the millions many vehicles do.
So your claims against Centurion Mk3 are incorrect. Centurion Mk3 had no right to be below T-54 or M48 in BR.
You really don’t seem to get it. Sweden isn’t popular because the 4.0 to 8.0 grind is awful. And nearly no one is grinding an entire line for just top teir.
If players are better… but tanks are awful… stats will still be bad. How is this hard to understand?
Yes, you do need postpen when your average APCR disinegrates on impact and only produces 2-3 shrapnel that don’t necessarily detonate ammo.
shell shatter is random chance. You can hit a vertical plate and shatter. The chance increases with angle, but it doesn’t start at 0.
Volumetric was added when The MK3 was 7.0 and caernavon was 6.7. If you actually think that volumetric wasn’t updated since its release… oh boy are you deluded. Areas with complex geometry like the caernavon’s lower mantlet were causing some extremely bonkers calculations. There is a curl in the rear section of the mantlet that was getting calculated as an angle to the armor slope, causing the lower mantlet area to have over 500mm of effective armor on volumetric release. The historic weak point of brit tanks was the turrent ring. Speaking of turret rings, they were also getting some weird volumetric calculations as you could scrape around off the top of the ring but it would get calculated at some high angle because of how the round hit. Turret rings on volumetric release were nearly universally too strong.
They didn’t even HAVE variable thickness plates at that time. Each plate was individually rated to a thickness and armor was made up of many plates, causing areas to have ‘overlapping’ plates where it should just have been a gradient between two thicknesses. You saw this on T54 style tank turrets as the front armor segment met the next segment.
Thunderskill was DESIGNED to pull from WT API. Thats why it was THE stat source for ages. Then Gaijin added an API security layer to stop spam pulls and that nuked the site. It then became opt-in. No one designs an opt-in stat site. It would gain no traction and provide no info.
This screams that you need more knowledge on statistics. Your post’s incorrect statement here does not explain T-80BVM, Ariete non-AMVs, Leclerc, etc.
In-fact, many people claimed the T-80BVM was OP despite being worse than Abrams and Leopard 2A5s since the start.
Shell shatters is deterministic based on angles and hitting spaced armor or not. It’s not random.
The last time Mk3 was 7.0 was before stabilizers were added to War Thunder. Stabulizer is why Mk3 correctly moved up, no other reason.
Last time someone made a post saying how bad this tank is, i went and played a few matches and ended with a k/d of like 3-4.
Any armor issues should be fixed, i agree
To be fair, this one isnt gaijin’s fault. They put a vote on if aphe should be made more realistoc and do similar damage to solid shot. Players voted no.
I really wished they voted yes because aphe is way too strong.
The EFT can easily contest or avoid it for most of the game lol.
I mean they suffer a bit but it’s not nearly as bad as you are making it out to be.
Try Vickers at 8.0, it’s one of the best there.
The Vickers is my favourite 8.0 tank (followed by the beached whale Conqueror).
Its gun and decent rof is it’s cherry on the cake though. Not much else is going for it though. Useless armour and only average speed.
Tog is my favorite
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Rate of fire isn’t just decent for an 8.0 medium tank. Armor is pretty much what you’d expect from a 8.0 medium where stopping HEAT/APDS rounds is out of the question by default.