I like what you said there. I would like to add, side climb till both teams meet and the furball starts to drop, then bomb in, zoom out
Scientific evidence?
Go do test flights and actual in game measurements of performance RoC, top speed at different altitudes, turn rate, turn radius, and what not. Then go compare to statcards. This game is over 10 years old and well known.
Those values in the datamine around what you posted, are the values for wiki and statcard. They have nothing to do with actual plane performance. Take P47D28 for example, those values are derived on full fuel and weapon loadout. Who does that? Now go look at values on minfuel and clean.
What those values also don’t tell you is about compression values at speed, acceleration, low speed handling, roll rate, turn radius.
It’s just some static numbers arrived on using a specific weapon/fuel load at a specific altitude, and these configurations also differ per plane, by nation, you cannot compare them.
My dude how would the literal code of the game change from the files to during flying?
That’s NOT the code of the game. And read my edit above.
Without you going to go do actual testing, your comments are useless.
But you want a simple example? Sure.
P47D28
Actual rate of climb on 20 minute fuel and clean wings is 19.7 m/s from 0 to 6000 meters (average RoC over the whole distance). Now lets look at RoC from 4000m to 6000m, this would be 19 m/s.
Fw190A4
Actual RoC on 20 minute fuel and clean over the same distance is 16.8 m/s. Again, lets look at 4000-6000m, this comes at 15.7 m/s.
Nevermind about top speed, P47 is faster at any altitude. It can also turn with a 190 if it wants. A 190A4 isn’t going to do anything at all against a P47D28 and they can already meet each other being 1.0 BR apart… and you are here saying not only should they meet on the regular, but a P47D28 should be meeting 2.3-2.7s… LOL
You see where all your data falls apart now?
I don’t even know why you are arguing here at all, your most flown US prop is the P38L and you have altogether 5 games in it with 6 kills, the next thing is a P38J and you have 5 games in it too with 0 kills. Maybe first do a little searching in yourself if its really the plane that’s bad. Oh sorry, you also flew the P61 which is great fun, 10 games with 1 kill and 9 deaths. You have no games whatsoever in any other nation except 5 wholes games in Germany with reserve planes an the He100.
You clearly fall into the “New player picks US and claims the nation sucks” category.
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Found this thread after a quick Google search. I am in utter disbelief how impossible it is to enjoy Amerian props right now. Every single game I end up alone and helpless.
This screenshot is 3 minutes into my latest game. I was climbing together with my team, did a merge with the enemies and I look back around, noticing my entire team now gone.
Asking around I just get responses like “Skill issue” or “Just Boom N Zoom bro”
Even if I did spend 10-15 minutes climbing and the game didn’t end before I spot the enemy team, what difference would it make? I would still be in the same situation.
Something needs to be done about this. American props is unplayable unless you enjoy self-torture.
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Bad teams aren’t helping the US… many new players pickup that nation first (both pilots and tankers grinding their CAS). Nothing to do with US props being bad, because they aren’t…
Take an example, I have an alt… P51D30 on the US tech tree I got 75:14 over 30 games with 67% WR, not great…
Now take the same plane in China, P51K, I got 53:2 over 16 games with 88% WR…
The plane is fine, undertiered as heck tbh, but the teams are hot garbage a lot of times. And US planes lose a lot of their viability without a team as they rely a lot on speed, and to reset an engagement when it failed just takes too much time to make them very viable on their own. Person can just start following you, another starts climbing, and your speed advantage will soon be nullified and you won’t have positional advantage either. Then add another 4+ enemies on top of that, you see where this is going
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You only have to be in a match when playing early jets and your see US team flying f84’s not extending enough
I played almost exclusively AB until Tier IV (the Tier IV before the economy/foldering changes), and only started playing RB with Attackers and Bombers because of the massive disadvantages American props have in comparison to everything else. I could literally go from being a consistent top three on an AB team to dying in the first engagement because a Bf 109 was going faster and higher than me already (even if I stayed at the back of the pack and side climbed).
Anyways, yeah here’s the stats from the game code showing a (at max) 4.95% beneficial difference in RoC and a 0.806% unfavorable difference in TT from the Wiki’s values:
Here is the Fw 190 A-4’s values, showing that it actually benefits in RoC by 33.0% and also benefits in TT by 8.34% from the Wiki:
I’m not sure how this proves that the Fw 190 A-4 deserves to be at a lower BR than the P-47d-28.
Additionally, these values are not being changed by much except for the Fw 190 A-4, which is the first large anomaly I’ve seen in the game code after going through the F-15A, Su-27, Pantsir, TOR-M1, 9M331, 95Ya6, AIM-54C, R27-ER files.
If you might agree that the D-28 and the D-30 are almost identical, i encourage you to fly them both (the 190 A-4 and the D-30) and you will see that the D-30 is a beast and the 190 A-4 flies like a brick (see thread 190s FM) - the only advantage of the 190 is the better roll - but this can be countered by throttle drop or air brake.
Just get rid of stat cards, they are just indicators. If you don’t trust the fellow player above - compare the premium XP-50 (TT 19.0 sec.) with the TT B7A2 (TT 28.0 sec.). A clear case for the XP-50 on paper, but the B7A2 will outturn the XP-50 any day of the week - together with YaK-3 and all 109s except the E-4 at BR 3.0.
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I don’t think decreasing BR’s will solve US plane problems, only real difference is that you will outrun people faster but still won’t turn with them and stuff.
Biggest problem really for me is that they are too reliant on teams (which are usually something you can’t rely on) on a squad they are very lethal as shown in several YouTube videos, but as Defyn said one time “the only thing it does well is running away and that’s it”.
I really disliked P-47’s though, bit too fat for my taste (but still better than La-9’s and La-11’s), with P-38 being probably my favorite out of the 3.
Also gaijin please put the P-51K back into rank IV
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Can you stop misrepresenting flightmodel files if you don’t understand them. Those screenshots you show, scroll up, what do you see under which topic those fall?
Yes, that’s right, those are values fed to the WT wiki, and they absolutely do NOT represent actual in game performance, see my earlier responses.
If you want to look at actual FM data, you need to look within the flightmodel folder, there you have a fm folder that contains the actual FM. But, in there you need to ignore everything under "Passport". The flight performance itself is calculated using everything at the beginning of the file (top to passport). See for example the P-47D-28. It does NOT contain any “climb speed” or “top speed” and whatnot. Those are calculated by the game engine when fed all the information.
Again, if you want to see actual performance in game, you need to test in game. The FM files aren’t going to tell you, neither are the statcards, neither the WT wiki. You can use plugins like WTRTI to document in game performance during test flight into a .csv file which you can then import into a program like Excel and graph out the performance in detail and compare planes against each other if you so wish.
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That’s my bad on the wiki section, I just used Ctrl+F for ease of use and it was already off of my screen. I knew about the fm files but assumed the values within the main file were a combination of the information given within the fm file (where the fm file wouldn’t actually be used in game, where it was just a list of base values that were fed into a function by the devs to create the main .blkx within the flightmodels folder), kind of like the flightmodels file was the output of compiling (as an analogy) the fm file.
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One would wish it worked that way, but unfortunately it doesn’t. The values on the wiki/statcard are entirely arbitrary and don’t represent anything
This is not a sign of a healthy gameplay loop.
The current American meta is either fly in, head-on everything and hope you get a kill or climb, watch your team die because they are easily out-performed then get chased around and get called slurs/get mass-reported till you get banned for “Passive behavior”
A change is needed.
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What change are you going to push? American players barely even climb let alone work together if they’re out-climbed. That’s why I dread playing with Americans when it’s a 6v6 or 8v8 against Japanese in SA server.
Whenever I play Americans or with Americans, I accept the fact that I might have to carry the match. Call that egotistical or whatever, but my experience with them are barely neutral, always slightly negative.
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If you think shallow climbs and dives are there only for creating separation, then you are wrong. You’re also gaining more energy than your opponents, because they lose more energy than you at high speed.
As for bleeding speed in turns, try doing a horizontal 180 while pulling hard, and another one from the same starting conditions but while pulling gently, and see the difference.
When you know your opponent is at a sufficiently lower energy state, there is a point where you can gently pull up, get to near stall speed, and come back over your opponent. They will try pulling up after you, but they will stall out, and you get a free attack. To see that effect clearly, try the A36 with no gunpods. Be at your top speed somewhere near the deck, and have a slow, aggressive plane follow you. Get enough separation (I think 2.5km minimum, don’t remember, maybe more, and depends on what you’re running from), and then gently pull up and convert all your speed into altitude. Your opponent will not reach your altitude.
“What if they climb right away, instead of following?”
Then they are forcing a stalemate. The pilot that gets frustrated first loses. Or the one with less tickets.
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Well said, instructor gimps the FM. It’s what I do with the Horton 229 too. People say it bleed energy too fast in turns, I just keep telling them it happens when you break hard, and that the proper way is to turn gently with the mouse.
Of course, it’s going to be hard when you have one slotted hard in your six, because the Horton has the flight profile of an entire country when turning.
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Try playing Sim. Where American props have time to climb without a big red marker announcing their presence. 😎
As long as you are in control of your aircraft you can not be reported for passive play, you are allowed to use the whole map. Survival is priority no1. Ignore them in chat if they want to wast a GM’s time thats there problem.
P51‘s advantage is the high speed, but gaijin makes the high speed performance like ****, even P47 or Zero at 600km is easier to aim target than p51s
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