Amx 30B2 is solid at 8.7, albeit situational, the BRENUS would, in a reality without the compression we have in game likely be +0.3 or more due to adding ERA, IRCM, and more smokes.
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I would say it couldn’t go lower. It has everything but a STAB. Good Dart, Thermals, IRCM, LRF, ERA, Decent Reload, Good Mobility, etc. Its not amazing but I don’t think its an 8.3 tank. Victim of compression.
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Come on. I’m speaking from experience after spading it, you haven’t even played France.
https://warthunder.com/en/community/userinfo/?nick=Zyranovos
Yeah 100% agree with that, I would trade LRF/Thermals or APFSDS for STAB
Maybe the round is better, but if you cant get it on target, it’s a moot point. The T-55AMs are better tanks, APFSDS+LRF+STAB is all you need
ERA really isn’t a positive point on this tank, at this BR only stock tanks shoot chemical round.
If removing the ERA for a reduced weight was an option, I would take it. It would probably even help with the gun laying time due to less weight on the suspension.
The only time ERA saved me was against an Ikv91, which is a 8.0 tank.
The T-55s don’t fire good APFSDS, they fire a round that’s effectively an APDS round that’s slightly more resistant to bad shots.
Thermals and a lolpen round are at least on-par if not superior.
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Technical and paper abilities mean a lot in this besides the player.
2 tanks are driving towards a cap. One has lolpen+thermals, the other one has APDS+stab. Who wins?
Even if the APDS doesn’t instantly kill the other tank, whoever gets the first shot off usually wins.
The average player at this BR knows they can center-mass the AMX’s for a mission kill.
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You mean like the technical ability of having a STAB at a BR where most other tanks have a STAB?
Or having the technical ability of having ERA equipped at a BR where most other tanks shoot kinetic rounds?
Or having the technical ability of LRF+Thermals in a CQC-centric game?
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The one in the better position to spot and shoot the other wins.
Thermals alone add 0.3 to a vehicle.
A 50% better round adds 0.3 typically.
AMX-32 adds a stabilizer is 0.7 higher.
T-55A adds a stabilizer is 0.3 higher than T-54.
M60AOS adds a stabilizer is 0.3 higher than M60.
You ignore the stabilizer and accuse everyone of having skill issues… typical.
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Well by your own definition the un-STAB’d tank loses, because it needs time to stop and lay the gun to get into position, while the T-55 can advance while being ready to shoot.
I really don’t get how you can ignore having no STAB and focus on the thermals and round performance. If thermals is +0.3BR, how much +BR is having a STAB?
Really, having to be stationary to engage is a massive disadvantage at this BR, how often do you find yourself sitting at the same spot for any periods of time?
And I do not struggle to kill an AMX-30 BRENUS while playing the T-55AM1, do you? Just dont shoot the fuel tank.
@TaseR
If you haven’t learned the nuances of unstabilized firing, I’d suggest you practice more.
I get you think your favorite tank is superior to the AMX-30B, but it’s not.
My AMX-30B is at least on par.
So yeah, I’d suggest playing unstabilized tanks more often and practicing rather than being comfy with your stabilized tanks.
My favourite tank? It’s your favourite tank, and you brought up the T-55.
Wanna talk about the 9.0 XM803 instead? Or the 9.3 AMX-32 (105)? Or the M60A1 RISE (P) at 8.7 with STAB+LRF+ERA?
And what are you talking about, nuances of unstabilized firing? You mean shooting on the move un-STAB’d?
You quantified the thermals at +0.3BR and round at +0.3BR, why don’t you quantify the STAB?
Instead you turn this into personal attacks?
Which un-STAB’d 8.7 tanks do you want me to go play, the AMX-30B2? Spaded that one too, same story. Funny it doesn’t have thermals but also sits at 8.7…
If you can’t handle this discussion and go down the “skill issue” route without saying any constructive, just don’t comment
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@TaseR
Yes, AMX-30B2 is one of my favorite tanks in the game.
Thermals, lolpen round, fast, LRF.
AMX-32 adds a stabilizer is 0.7 higher.
T-55A adds a stabilizer is 0.3 higher than T-54.
M60AOS adds a stabilizer is 0.3 higher than M60.
Not sure why you’ve never quantified the stabilizer.
Of course all you can do is insult others, all you have are personal attacks.
Either way the standard AMX-30 without LRF, without thermals, and without APFSDS is 8.0 alongside its equivalents Leopard 1, M60, etc.
AMX-30B2 is a really good 8.7, it’s just bad at sniping because no stabilizer.
You’re not making sense and you’re editing your posts that I replied to. Can you clarify? Which tank do I think is superior to the AMX30 BRENUS? I though you where talking about the T-55AM.
And all these tanks that got a STAB are lower BR than the BRENUS, whats your point? That the BRENUS should be 9.0 with a STAB? I wouldn’t see a problem with that. But it doesnt have a STAB and is at 8.7. And thats the problem.
Well you never asked and I never quantified anything so far, but if you’re to ask, I would say +1.0 BR. LRF +1.0. Thermals +0.3.
I invite you to re-read my posts up until you said the following (in your edited post none the less):
What is your point? AMX-30 (1972) at 8.0 with no STAB isn’t so bad as most other tanks don’t have STABs at that BR. AMX-30’s main issue is the slow HEAT round.
With APFSDS, LRF, and thermals, but no STAB, I would say it’s bad at everything except
sniping.
@TaseR
Sniping requires armor, reverse gear, and a stabilizer. Stabilizer’s a mandatory for hill peaking.
No stab is best for CQC brawling where minor elevation changes don’t impact shots as much.
The tanks better than AMX-30B2 will be ones that have a stabilizer with thermals, APFSDS, and LRF; or are at least firing better rounds without thermals.
Those tanks that are lower BRs with stabilizers don’t have thermals or DM23 equivalent APFSDS rounds.
USA doesn’t get that until 9.0 with M60 TTS, which is better than AMX-30B2 and is coincidentally a higher BR.
I learned that no stab was best in CQC when I was learning techniques in Tiger 2H.
I learned that stiff suspension in CQC made the Tiger 2H a better weapon for its BR than any Sherman that wasn’t M4A2.
I took the lessons from Tiger 2H and applied it to every tank. AMX-13-90 became my best light tank because I treated it the same I treated the Tiger 2H, just less forgiving if I screw up my shot.
AMX-30 became the same, AMX-30B2 became the same. BRENUS I tried new tactics that all failed, played it entirely wrong compared to standard B2, but I learned things by failing.
Yes, a stabilizer makes long range easy, and shorter ranges a bit more forgiving; that fact remains true regardless of the tactics either of us you.
However, other factors can mitigate the disparity.
A significantly better round, good gun handling, stiff suspension, great mobility, and for medium ranges thermals and a LRF.
Cause yes, T-55AM-1 has armor that protects it against most 7.7s and a chunk of 8.0s.
Neither T-55AM-1 nor AMX-30 can protect themselves against the other.
So it comes down to which player understands the weaknesses of their respective tanks and plays around those weaknesses.
AMX-30B2 has no stabilizer.
T-55A is less mobile, worse reload, worse turret traverse.
Those weaknesses are countered by their strengths. The T-55A’s primary strength being the stabilizer.
T-55AMs are also 9.0.
This is a terrible opinion. Downtiers from 8.7 are pretty much prime HEAT BRs. There are many tens of tanks within the AMX-30 B2 BRENUS battle rating range with HEAT or ATGMs as their primary, top armament. The value that ERA adds is enormous, while it has an insignificant effect on weight.
You chose the only high rank French tank with ERA, one of the best overall in fact, and chose to hate on it with no reason. The base AMX-30 B2 without ERA, without soft-kill APS, with worse mobility, at the same BR, you ignored. This thread is either trolling with sarcastic intent (bad faith strawmanning), or simply a skill issue post. Either way, it is incorrect.
Nice opening statement.
What downtiers? You can say any tank is stellar in a downtier, that’s not the point. Compare it with tanks that are at the same BR.
Yeah I’m discussing one tank, which tank do you want to discuss? And what am I ignoring?
This is a terrible opinion.
The reason is that it has no STAB
Ignore what exactly? I made a topic about the BRENUS, do you expect me to list and compare it with every other tank in the game?
??? Do you want me to resume what I said, maybe this will be easier for you to understand: I said it sucks cuz it has no STAB, people are saying it’s great cuz the ERA, I’m saying it’s not useful at it’s BR. People are also saying it’s great cuz of the LRF/Thermals, I’m saying not having STAB still makes it bad.
You’re projecting about the bad faith, just because I’m able to construct a argument against what people are saying doesn’t mean I’m strawmaning or I am in bad faith. I spaded it and came here to discuss it. People who never played France are telling me it’s good.
Going forward, please quote the arguments I made directly so we can focus on these, instead of labelling the whole post as trolling/strawmanning/skill issue/bad faith.