Why is HESH still in this horrific state

[KillaKiwi]

I‘m always amazed how different Mobile is from actual WT, despite looking like the same game.

Maybe I’ll have to check out a video on the game to see how it’s set up.

Obviously different devs that went: Yeah no tank is going to survive a 72kg explosive shell.

Maybe they simply fixed the bug that had HESH have like no splash damage when it hits a thick armor plates.

Looks like it operates mainly on overpressure damage. Like the hit on the Ferdinand, where the shell hit the tracks from the front but still managed to destroy the tank in one shot.

In WT they just should just introduce hull break.
Like imagine you hit a Jagdtigers superstructure with that round. 250mm of armor and it only kills like two crews and the tank is fine, despite a 70kg armor scab being dislodged from the armor plate on the inside.

HESH should be a one shot machine.
It already suffers from low velocity and the fact it’s defeated by most composite armor arrays or simply spaced armor.

[BeautifulTai_wan]

@KillaKiwi

In WT they just should just introduce hull break

No, please no.

Not again. Hull break was terrible. Darts sailing through empty space and instantly killing light armor was neither accurate nor fun.

I get that you want HESH to work, but punishing all light armored vehicles with the return of the objective worst mechanic to ever make it to the live server is not the way.

[KillaKiwi]

Making HESH cause hullbreak has nothing to do with an ancient, badly implemented mechanic.

[BeautifulTai_wan]

If you return hull break for hesh, people will ask for it to apply to HE, and then HEAT, and then APHE, and then it just gets applied globally and we’re back to the worst mechanic in the game.

The shell just needs a pure rework with a new mechanic to better simulate the effects, full stop. Hull break is dead and needs to stay that way.

[KillaKiwi]

Or you just ignore any complaints and just make HESH actually an effective round.

„Oh no, we can not have people complain, at lesser not more than 50%.“
But when one group complaints, it’s totally fine.

Really curious how APHE, which explodes in a fantasy sphere but the nose still continues onward, has any right to be more effective.

Same with HEAT-FS, which can already overpressure light armor and makes tiny holes into thick plates.
How is that supposed to „hull break“?

HE already completed destroys light vehicles and most heavies, if you hit the right spot, but when HESH dislodges an armor piece the size of a frisbee, then how is that not reason for the vehicle to be destroyed.

HE overpressure makes like no sense, the way it is implemented.

Nobody complains because now you either kill or not kill a vehicle.

But HESH is practically weaponized HE for destroying even heavy armor.

152mm HE can not damage a Tiger IIs 150mm front plate and not even the 100mm lower plate, 120mm HESH can and that’s like half the weight of a 152mm HE round.

Now why would a 152mm HESH round not destroy the tank in one shot, when a 152mm HE to the turret face can?

Overpressure affects all explosive rounds but none deal catastrophic damage to an armor plate, unless the explosive force was able to penetrate it.

HE rounds could also get hull break, even though it will hardly make any difference, since 95% a penetrating hit is going to take out the vehicle anyway.

[BeautifulTai_wan]

@KillaKiwi

Or you just ignore any complaints and just make HESH actually an effective round.

That’s a great way to kill the game, by reviving hull break that will inevitably end up being applied globally due to complaints that go “oh why cant my HE/AP do that it makes more boom/has more energy than hesh”.

You give an inch and they will always take a mile.

[KillaKiwi]

Dude stop with that straw man argument.

This mechanic is just about making HESH an actual effective round against the targets it should be effective at.

And for all I care every round should be a one shot, if it disables the tank.
All it does is make armor penetration and mobility more important than armor and survivability based on crew hit points.

AP should kill tanks just as easily as APHE.
And if it did it wouldn’t break the game it would make it fair.

[poopooo]

@KillaKiwi

Really curious how APHE, which explodes in a fantasy sphere but the nose still continues onward, has any right to be more effective.

Haha, that’s what I love about the community. You say the APHE damage is wrong, a fantasy, and exaggerated, and then you get people telling you it can’t be changed because it would break the game’s balance and other excuses like that. The only thing missing is for them to say that a black hole would open up and swallow the entire universe if anything in the damage model is changed.
I think this is a pointless struggle. We’ll never have a correct damage model for all bullets and proper tank balance.

[BeautifulTai_wan]

@KillaKiwi

This mechanic is just about making HESH an actual effective round against the targets it should be effective at.

Hull break is not the way to do that.

[poopooo]

Well, possibly it is, since both HESH and HE, and even to a lesser extent HEAT, use explosive that acts directly on the armor, generating a shock wave on that armor, causing it to break or form a large crack in the armor if it is thin enough. The main difference is that HE generates that shock wave and fragments mainly to the sides, causing some penetration damage due to the mass of the projectile but less wave since it dissipates on the sides, while HESH generates practically all of its damage forward, which makes them extremely effective against light armor and quite damaging against thicker armor since that shock wave, when projected forward, causes the inner face of the armor to jump into pieces. For this reason it would be fairly correct to add the hull brake for relatively thin armor plates, mainly for HESH and HE, especially those of quite a caliber, apart from giving the HESH their real spalling damage, while the HEAT would have less possibilities of doing hull brake although in very light armor it would still be possible, since nowadays HEAT ammunition is used as multipurpose ammunition to combat infantry and light vehicles, leaving the APDS-FS for heavier vehicles.

[AndreLaga]

i have the impression that thanks to the update the hesh is a little better but still seriously lacks damage and also overpressure because there are times when I shoot in tiger 2 or tiger 1 turrets I only do it from the breech. but it’s just an impression it happens to be the same hesh as before I’ll let you try but for the moment we are still not on the real expectations of a quality hesh.

[KillaKiwi]

There’s still the issue, where the damage mode of HESH completely changes, based on the armor thickness hit.

You hit the Tiger II 150mm UFP and the HESH rounds explosive penetration gets so low it can’t destroy the gun barrel.
Aim for the 100mm lower plate and despite the round being further away, it now destroys the barrel easily.

You hit the 185mm front plate → No overpressure
You hit the 30mm track armor on the turret → It overpressure the tank through the hull roof.

Spoiler

[AndreLaga]

I agree the hesh is still bad but already it is a little more playable. But the real problem is the non-existent damage what is the random overpressure. There are times I shoot perfectly in the turret of a tiger 2 or I overpressure it but often in the same place it does nothing and that a simple he of 5kg of explosive would have destroyed it

[AndreLaga]

In hindsight, I still often find myself unable to do anything when hitting Tiger 2 1 and Panther turrets. Then, of course, there is still far too much damage missing, fragments

[masinator2012]

at least 3 years and it is still broking. When is this going to be fixed?
16 KG TNT directly on AMMO of the T29 on the side with the avre DID NO DAMAGE wtf is this trash.
There are so many bug reports already fix it gajin dammit. I wont be spending any more money.

[Pangolin_Fan]

It hot a pane of glass why would it explode?

[ARK_BOI]

If you know who will be full victims the most
You’ll get the answers why HESH can’t perform like they’re supposed too.

[warrma]

im not saying it should explode, IT should however kindly knock the gunner out directly behind it. Which it doesn’t do and thats the issue.

[BRSkyFalcon]

its hard to survive in an M-51 when u have paper armor, medium to bad mobility and get constantly uptiered once u research basically ANY other vehicle in the Israeli tree. I guess its BR is the way it is rn so as to make research fairly possible.

[BRSkyFalcon]

Well the Magach 3’s 105mm HESH is PRETTY DEADLY if u hit it right, besides being slightly inconsistent, but it can still OHK (mostly if u hit turret roof). (in my opinion)