And that probably will lead to it remaining at that BR since Gaijin relies on statistics of the vehicles being actually played to change their BR. And there’s just no actual reason to play the Pz.IV J.
1 Like
Same for 5.7
Not to mention all the other 5.7 you could add (aka the actual tech-tree vehicles of this BR)
It’s actually common for vehicles to be the same BR, even if one is better than the other.
1 Like
Not “much worse”
Also for some reason M4A4 has worse results, idk if it’s because it’s played by a higher amount of players or because of a lack of .50 cal power.
I’m doing better in Shermans, because I usually play quite aggressively without carrying much about being destroyed) and stab helps a lot with such playstyle. Although again they are both pretty good at their br.
I wish there was a confirmed P40 variant with more powerful engine to compete with these two.
Posting all time stats is less than useful. Trends matter. They can even help (or undermine) your argument…
Anyway, the main thing I give Italy in the WW2 BR ranges is their props. I love this thing in GRB:
1 Like
Yeah, Re.2005 is my favorite CAS 👍
That’s why I’m doing current BP, even despite VDM performance seems to be quite nerfed.
2 Likes
Sure but…
Usually the better one comes AFTER the weaker one. Pz 4 J is a big step down from the H.
No idea why anyone would research and buy the Pz 4 J once the H has been bought. Waste of RPs and SLs (and time - why buy it if you are not gonna mod it?)
2 Likes
Moving to caps always gets you killed. Maps are stacked with M18 (+ similar vehicles), which have insane speed. More than modern MBTs. The map is locked down before you make it halfway. Then you get shot from all directions.
So best way to play German tanks is to sit back and snipe from safe positions. Hope for a late comeback when the speedcar horde has been grinded down. Well…mostly it won’t happen. German Panthers, Tigers etc are just not made for a game like WT. Better have some fun sitting back than running into set up and waiting enemy speed teams.
3 Likes
Well… Except the squadron 262 with the 2 long barrel 30mm with HVAP and API belts.
AND 20mm APHE belts for light tanks/ SPAA.
Round it all of with 2 “Sledgehammers” with minengschob for the A2D spam…
1 Like
I see, cheers. I don’t do squadronss and I’m using 7.0 lineup, so didn’t even notice that thing.
But good to know that’s there.
Shame about HVAP damage these days.
2 Likes
I just joined a grinding squadron to get the vehicles. Probably not as fast as joining a competitive one, but it gets there eventually.
The API still packs a punch though
But, yeah, the BR is a little awkward given the lack of 7.3 TT stuff.
2 Likes
Pzgr 39 on the Pz4 H is very close to the M62 shell in penetration, only losing out on explosive mass.
It loses to the Type 4 Kou round to be fair.
Russia doesn’t really have a 75/76mm gun thats comparable, so I put the 57mm in, which the Pzgr 39 performs better than - though the Russian 57mm has a much higher RoF.
Speaking of RoF, The Pz4H reload is the same as the M4A1/76, and a second faster than the Chi-To.
Turret Traverse is slower than the Sherman and the T-34-57, but faster than the Chi-To.
All 3 get -10 degrees of gun depression, with the T-34 being Russian as usual and getting -5.
Mobility I’d have to do more testing that I cant be bothered with right now.
Sherman gets the Short stab, big advantage sure.
But then… The Pz4 H is 3.7. All the others are 4.7 and the Sherman is 5.0 thanks to its stab. So the Pz4H gets a gun thats within the realm of performance of 4.7 guns a full BR below everyone else.
What do the US and Russia get at 3.7? Well The shermans are still stuck with the 75mm with 104mm of pen. Russia doesn’t get a 3.7 T-34, it gets a 4.0 one with 99mm of pen at point blank lol. Japan gets to go to 4.3 for its lowest version of the long 75mm on the prem Chi-Nu II, which is still literally a 1.7 Chi-Ha Hull with a big fat turret and gun on it with pretty terrible mobility. (and equal turret traverse to Pz4H). At 3.3 it gets the Chi-Nu with a gun sort of similar to the Shermans 75mm, but with no stab, the same Chi-Ha hull and terrible mobility, and a way slower turret traverse.
Wow, so much pen. I guess Waffentrager is a great vehicle too.
Meanwhile at 3.3 and 3.7 Sherman gun is more than adequate, and kwk 40 penetration is not needed. It’s better to have better reload and better HE filler.
I mean, it is. It’s still my most played German ground vehicle, with a 61% win rate and 2.2 K/D. I’d definitely say it’s off-meta, especially these days, but getting a long 88 at 5.7, combined with a turret and a very low profile, is very strong if there’s a position to support it. You pretty much get to laugh at any armored target that shows up.
Until you come up against something armored, like almost everything in the Russian tree. Yes, they can be angled and played in such a way to make them resistant to the German 75, but not to the same extent that they can be immune to the American 75.
You can punch through T-34 and Sherman hulls, something said Sherman and T-34 guns really struggle with. Let alone KV-1s, where you can engage them at much longer ranges and a wider variety of angles.
What do you even mean?
Its not even that immobile compared to a Sherman or T-34. Its slightly less but not much. Its slower in top speed, but its responsive to inputs and turns and changes of direction, which is more than can be said for many other tanks in the BR. The Pz4 G and F2 are both more mobile due to being lighter and less well armoured if thats what you are after, at the cost of having a slightly worse gun thats still significantly better than the Sherman and T-34s guns.
the F2 and G have the same shell too, just slightly worse pen. If you can’t 1 shot things with the HE filler it has then I’m sorry, but that is 100% on you. I just played a game in it, got 10 kills and the only enemy I didn’t 1 shot was a KV-1 I hit in the engine for its first round due to having a bad angle, before moving to get a better shot and then 1 shotting his crew.
Enjoy fighting KV-1s at 3.7 with the sherman 75. I know it well - the chaffee is my most played tank, and there are definitely situations where it lacks. Even fighting T-34s you have to hit them perfectly in the turret frontally to pen them, UFP? don’t bother. Meanwhile Panzer 4 can center mass it without a single F given.
Speaking of the T-34s, the 76mm they (and the KV-1s) get is so garbage that I hate playing them despite how troll the armour layouuts on the tanks themselves are. you have to find weakspots on practically everything with those guns, I hate them. Heck the T-34s even have a longer reload than the Panzer 4 lmao.
The British get 57mm Solid shot on the Cromwell 1, (or the M61 shell on the Cromwell V… but with no explosive filler, which makes it pathetic). And Everyone else just gets copy paste Shermans/T-34s/Pz4s at the BR.
Yep, as I said directly below what you quoted.
Actually it’s one of the worst vehicles in game.
Meanwhile M36 is 5.3
You shoot the turret and 1-shot.
At 3.3 to 4.3 russia has no tank really able to take on Sherman frontally, outside of the KV TD monstrosity that is, but that thing 1-shots Pz IV through the turret with 45mm from 500m away.
Seriously, it’s not even difficult, with stabiliser you have extremely easy time getting on target, but as a guy trying to make Waffentrager look good, because “2.2 K/D” (LMAO) your opinions are not worth my time.
It actually is worse, but only when angled.
It’s the entire reason why a Jumbo can be vulnerable to the Russian 85mm BR-365 APHEBC at very close range despite it being 101.6mm thick total at 47 degrees. Each plate (63.5 and 38.1mm) gets individually overmatched, and provides their individual slope multipliers against the 85mm round, which leads to noticeably poorer equivalent than if it were a single 101.6mm plate, even if it were cast, since blunt headed APBC projectiles perform their best when overmatching and their worst when undermatching.
But since Pz.IVs are basically big boxes and the UFP is angled maybe 10 degrees, this doesn’t change much of anything.
Edit: I should mention I’m ignoring stuff like APDS shattering which makes layered armor actually better.
1 Like
You made it sound like it’s uncommon. It’s the opposite. Literally happens at every BR. It’s so common that it’s not even worth a mention. Vehicles like the J serve the function as a lineup filler. Though, Germany is so stacked at those BRs that it isn’t even worth filling the lineup there. Still, it’s a foldered vehicle these days, so it’s a choice for those who want to seek it out while the rest can skip it. Win-Win.
Balancing via statistics aside. You also need to factor in vehicles in lower BRs that will have to face the J if it does move down to 3.3. It really is in the right place. It’s like the bunch of T-62/T-55, etc, that the Soviets have at 9.0, some are just plain upgrades over others at the same BR - but they can’t move anywhere because the impact will be on those who have to face them if lesser ones move down to 8.7.
Edit: Fresh off the press - Panzer IV to 4.7, apparently:
tbh, I wouldn’t use 3.7 for Germany, because they’ve got this bad boy .3 away:
huh. That boomstick is fun and games, yes, i also loved it as soon as played it. But no matter what, them Panzer 4s are the work horses to fight and grind. And them 4H, 4J, 4G sitting 3,7-4.0 is ridiculously low for what they are.