Yes, although in a way that’s also the problem, because to win, you have to get up close and personal, and the maps keep changing in that direction. So it’s relatively rare that you can utilise that backline strength in a way that actively influences the match.
That’s not to say the TT struggles though. Just requires engaging the good ol’ brain when you drag your fat ass Tiger II by the scruff of its neck into a cap zone.
Performing super-difficult shots is not something most people can do. End of story.
My point?
Your point of view is so far detached from the norm, we mat as well be playing a completely different game.
To you US heavies are paper.
Jumbo?
500m MG shot with puma vs wiggling Jumbo, end of story.
T34 wirh hidden weakspot?
Pinpoint accuracy, regardless of distance and speed. All you need is what, soviet 85mm to take them out each and every time, without even seeing what you’re shooting at.
For normal people?
Bounce, bounce, bounce.
I’m not going to claim a team of 4 Ju-288, 1 Me-410 and 1 Ta-152H is fully functional, because “you just have to learn the muscle memory”.
Exactly. You can’t just rush straight in without thinking too much. You have to have map awareness of where the enemies are, and could appear from. What angles are being watched, and which you can push. When it’s a better bet to sit in cover and let the enemy push into you, rather than vice versa.
It’s not to say that Germany is weak, by any means. Because once you have the point, and can just sit and lock down sightlines, there aren’t that many answers outside of CAS.
Thing is, enemy has most of the map locked down early on.
Of course if you have insane spotting ability, superhuman aim etc., you’ll be fine.
But we keep expecting average player to perform insane feats just because 2 squadded up absolute elite guys managed to slaughter enemy team, and they still lost 32% of the battles mind you.
Meanwhile I am oftentimes succesful in pushing forward in KT, then I’m getting shot from 2 flanks cause my team got pushed back to the spawn within 2,5 minutes of the game.
With a teammate I would do much better.
Still of course I wouldn’t achieve anything substantial, as KT armor in most matchups is paper, and enemies oftentimes combine very high penetration with great mobility, which means, whoever gets the 1st shot, wins, and as a fairly normal player, I have maybe 65% (being VERY optimistic here) to win such a duel.
And that’s assuming it’s a duel and not me getting clobbered from several directions, which is a sad norm (at this point the game is lost anyway) - if I pushed really hard and not stop to engage enemies and hide I’d just die 50m closer to cap.
What’s a “super difficult” shot?
To me, a difficult shot is something that you have to get right in a rush and/or a split second. So for example if you and the Jumbo are aiming at each other at the same time. Or if you’re trying to hit the MG port of a T32 at 1000m while the T32 is moving. Or on weakspots that are very very iffy (say, the shot trap of an M103).
I chose that example specifically because I had barreled the T34, between the repair time and the reload being reset he would not shoot me any time soon. I could calmly line up my shot, bushes or not, and that is just pattern recognition. I learned to shoot weakspots much earlier than I learned what it takes to actually win matches, I was doing it with vehicles that I was getting a modest 45-50% win rate with.
Let’s flip the coin and look at the players I encounter. If I’m playing the Tiger II, it’s exceedingly rare to run into people that don’t know to shoot the turret face for the ammo rack. Over the past however many matches, I only ran into one T34 guy that on Advance To The Rhine, twice had the opportunity to shoot me at close range, and twice chose to shoot my angled UFP instead of the turret. I found it so weird that it was remarkable, and that’s because it’s not a common occurrence.
By the time you get to 6.7, I think people shooting specific spots (or trying to) is a fairly common phenomenon. I agree that the earlier BRs aren’t like this.
You need far more than just muscle memory to be in the top 50 of kills per battle in Air RB, which you say you were. If you were to describe what made you so good in the Ta, I’m sure you would list many factors way beyond muscle memory. Same for ground. Knowing when to move and when to stay still, knowing to read the match beyond what’s happening in your FOV, all this stuff is much harder to master than learning where the MG is on the hull of a tank.
That’s why these days, I rarely bother trying to snipe with Germany, unless I’m literally in a Jagdtiger. I’m usually flanking (by which I mean, countering the fast enemy flankers) and then converging onto the objective.
Tbh, of the two Tiger II videos I posted above, I don’t think there was a single shot that required “superhuman aim”, all kills happened under 500 metres and with fairly generic shot placement too, you can see this for yourself. What actually made the difference was positioning.
Maybe it’s because we’re not that elite, just veteran players using good tanks. I rate Tiger IIs and Jagdtigers quite highly, ditto the Panther II and Tiger II 105, and the Coelian right now is the bane of Allied teams’ existence.
How? Can they teleport?
Yes, the Allies do have the advantage of more mobile light tanks, but they aren’t so fast as to completely lock down the map early on (Outside of the maps where you can spawncamp from mid-map positions, thanks to Gaijin’s flawless map design).
German tanks are still mobile enough to make it to useful map positions before the fighting has really solidified. They aren’t T95s.
Doesn’t take exceptionally skilled players to make German tanks work. Just a player who can adapt their playstyle to fit their vehicles. Don’t play them like allied tanks, and you’ll do fine.
That’s a 1 in 10000 shot for normal people. That’s way outside the “difficult” adjective, that’s basically an impossibility for 1%er, who will not even attempt.
But for ultra-elite that T-32 with bushes on MG port and zig-zagging is as good as dead.
Again, we are playing 2 completely different games.
For your that T32 has like what, 150mm of armor at most engagement ranges?
To me it’s only possible to kill up close and when he’s not moving and even then I need some time to aim and some luck.
It’s like - imagine a guy, who can hit each shot in Me-262 A1U4. He has 900m/s stealth 50mm HE with 600g TNT equivalent. Such guy can just fly through enemy team and take out plane after plane.
Such guy can claim that Germany is unstoppable in Air RB at 6.7-7.0 bracket.
But most shots he lands are an absolute waste of ammo for a top 0,5% of players, only elite of the elite, literally select few can achieve similar results.
His view of the plane and BR bracket simply do not apply to my own experience.
We are not playing the same game.
Meanwhile in reality 6.7 Germany gets roflstomped, and for a number of good reasons, one of these is “hitting planes with 50mm is extremely difficult”.
I would say for me too. That’s the sort of situation where you’re just praying, basically.
If it’s sitting still and unangled, sure.
That’s mostly due to two factors: inexperienced players, and a lineup that’s missing some critical uptier-friendly, mobile component. You can’t really fix the former, but you can fix the latter and it should be done. While we wait for that to happen, though, what players can do is work on themselves to get as much juice as they can out of Tiger IIs and Jagdtigers. It is well worth it. And it is also satisfying when you go back in server replay to analyse the match and see the enemy team write stuff like
Also another thing. What you will notice as you become better and better at German 6.7, is that some players will underestimate you because you are German.
Look at this example. I am sorry that it’s not on YouTube, I was not using it at the time yet.
T32E1 hull down, and I was in a Jagdtiger. With only the turret exposed, I could only really scratch his paint. In that position, he’s a problem for the whole team, right? So I took out his gun barrel, and crept closer. Then took out his gun barrel again, and crept even closer. I did this several times in a row before he actually started to bother wiggling his turret - and I just let him finish doing it only to then barrel him again.
I eventually planned to get close enough to kill him, but what happened instead is also good enough - he was being pinged all the time and someone on our team bombed him. Problem solved.
He then respawned in an M103, and I killed him (at short range through the LFP). He took a backup M103, caught me unawares this time, and killed me. I re-respawned in a Tiger II and killed him back just as the match ended.
It was a cool fight, and pretty funny to rewatch. If you adapt your tactics you will absolutely catch people flat-footed because they expect average German main behaviour and they get this instead.
[quote=“Loofah, post:1, topic:284799”]
What Germany has is tons of penetration vs enemies that 1-shot you at any distance, that have superior mobility and stabilised guns.
thats not true tell me what tank except for large glass cannons can 1 shot center a angled tiger E
I do find myself doing this. I sometimes end up assuming they are the standard “muh glorious wonder weapon”. Not always the case which leads to some deaths.
You can get a good amount out of them at times.
Just ended a match where the jagdtiger was brain dead gameplay. Sat sniping while on my phone.
Japanese bias to think the German 75mm is equal to the Japanese 75mm or the US 76mm 😌
Maybe because a Sherman with a stabilized gun that can one tap a Pz IV from 1.5km and a T-34 from 500m is a lot better than a tank that is the medium with the worst mobility, armor and turret traverse speed?
I think OP mentioned it but you might as well play the M10 and are just as effective or better.
The M10 even was buffed and now has a 5s reload rate and a turret that offers excellent protection hull down.
The M10 is a great TD and the Pz IV a much better TD than a medium tank.
Funnily enough, the M36 is a better medium tank than the VK or Panther D, which are straight up TDs that pretend to be medium tanks 😄
You do get some of those and they’re a good way to throw in some variety compared to the usual cap brawling. This is a nuke I got by literally just camping from the notorious Ash River spot:
That said, sometimes you end up brawling with it, and that can also be fun, even if it’s super challenging.
85mm can do that, just not at long range.
17 pounder center mass will do that actually.
Don’t know about 76mm, I guess at shorter range only.
Anything with US 90mm, M36 and M6, neither is that much od glass cannon BTW, M6 is basically a decently armored medium tank, just kinda big, M36 can bounce a few things with the turret, while hull is weak, this is not horrible.
More armor still? Su-85M and Su-100 have better frontal armor than a Tiger.
Only if unangled. A perfectly angled Tiger is completely immune to the US 76mm in the hull, even at point blank range.
Who is bouncing rounds off an M6, exactly? It’s best armor is around 100mm flat, outside a couple of very small areas where your round will be volumetriced. You can’t even angle thanks to the hull corners.
???. It’s 76mm at it’s thickest. You can be volumetriced by the mantlet on occasion, but that’s exceedingly rare in my experience. Or they could just load HE and overpressure you.
And yet, because they’re casemates, they can’t effectively angle. The thing that makes the Tiger I so strong. Nor can they hulldown, to gain the Tiger 1’s black hole of a mantlet.
Cue Laughing in 4 sec reload 7,5 cm, 157mm pen-
(Yes the Strv m/42 DT is pretty busted. Its fast has a fenomenal cannon even for 5.7 and enjoys eating armour for lunch. And its very much Undertiered.)
Is this ragebait ?
3.3 germany is absolute insane, the only thing shermans have to compete is the stabilizer, the german guns are very good at this br and the post pen damage is also very good in all of them from my experience.
6.7 germany is also strong, if you have eyes and ears you can do very well by yourself , yes your teams are not very good , but the reason the teams don’t do very well its not because the tanks suck balls but because the player base just sucks…
Same story with Panther, if enemy has time to switch ammo, then hit you with low velocity HE, it’s on you, seriously.
M6 has to move for the armor to work, it has a lot of angles, but it’s mobile enough to bait people into shooting the corner and switching the angle.
Also M6 is a medium. It’s not a “glass cannon”.
Glass cannon would be Su-100P, extremely mobile, super survivable, taking Tiger out at any distance without any problem.
“Perfectly angled Tiger” means you are slugging it out frontally with a heavy tank. This is a scenario that should not favor your survival.
3.3 Germany is the easiest opponent ever for US. M4A1 and M10 are vastly superior. M4A1 is extremely fun to play as paper German vehicles get 1-shot, you outrun and outreload them, you have stabilised gun with big HE charge and you can shoot them anywhere.
Pz IV has a gun with tons of pen. But it doesn’t matter when it’s dead. 12 degrees gun depression + big boom APHE + stabiliser + mobility + actually some armor = roflstomping.
And then you have F6F with 3 1000lbs bombs you can drop separately and F4U with 2 1000lbs bombs. Both have tons of ammo for MGs that penetrate roofs of every German tank.
This is the EZ mode of Warthunder.
You have to be delusional to not notice this.
