Either way, even if the changes to the Tiger 105 weren’t direct buffs – it still stat changes of a ahistorical vehicle. You’re also glossing over what I said about the Coelian. Accepting the hypothetical configuration of the vehicle and implementing it in retrospect shouldn’t happen. The turret was never built, and as such, should not receive any changes to it’s stats on the grounds of the vehicle being ahistorical.
The vehicles were altered to correct reported bugs supported by appropriate sources.
The Abrams DU is not supported by appropriate sources.
These aren’t arbitrary buffs nor even balance changes but rather bug fixes.
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I wouldnt say and increase of measly 20mm of pen for more than halves of explosive filler gone is a buff, this also make it unable to overpressure light vehicles lol.
Edit: wrong reply sorry
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I mean they are making the fake stuff less fake as in they use appropiate sources to come as close to the planned rendition as possible. Sure its weird since they are fake in the first place but i bet you wouldnt complain if all of them were straight nerfs
The existence of these vehicles alone is a contradiction to Gaijin’s standards for appropriate sourcing. The Coelian was buffed based on documents for it’s fictitious, never built configuration. As such, it should be denied – because it was never built. The vechicle should be in a state of limbo, if not outright removed because it is not real.
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You are correct that I wouldn’t have such an incentive to complain, but the fact that the Coelian is capable of terrorizing it’s BR range at the moment is ridiculous and largely caused by these issues and that is my motive for making this thread. Because it causes an issue. But you are deflecting the issue, and trying to make the situation personal – ignoring my core argument, that’s wrong, don’t do that. And as I said, I think that they should remain untouched, in that state of limbo that includes nerfs.
The turret was never built, so there is no way to mount those guns and, as such the vehicle is fake. You are treating my argument selectively, do not do that.
No you just dont understand the changes. What they did is take stuff thats documented in some way or like the guns even built and implement that on the fake vehicle. They are trying to reduce the fake as much as possible which is a good thing. I agree that the Coelian should have gone up in BR alongside but the changes are good
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Even tho the turret wasnt build there are still detailed drawings of it and its not like a missing turret stopped other vehicles from implementation. But that doesnt matter, BECAUSE IT WAS REMOVED FOR THAT REASON. It simply was now in terms of guns corrected to what it historically (actually) was, since the guns were build and tested, since late 1943/early 1944 even.
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How it feels to ping that one guy who knows his stuff
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Exactly, and thats why I think it shouldn’t receieve any changes because of how it was never built. The point is that Gaijin wouldn’t accept any new vehicles on the grounds that the Coelian was implemented – and as such, it should remain untouched, and in a state of limbo, if not actually removed (deleted from the game entirely)
Again, I can see the angle here, but as I said above: Gaijin would not accept any new vehicles on these sort of grounds. Which is why they should remain untouched, as the very existance of the vehicles is a contradiction to the standards Gaijin follows and imposes on reports and suggestions. They should have been deleted from the game because they are ahistorical. Yet they are not. Multiple people still own these vehicles, as has become clear. As such, I think a limbo state for their balance would have been most fitting, if they were to be kept in the game.
There is no “reducing the fake” when the vehicle itself is the very manifestation of fakeness. To reduce the fake, you delete the vehicles from the game files, permanently. Or, Gaijin loosens their standards for vehicles as a whole. Selective treatment is the issue, and should be condoned.
No, gaijin does accept incomplete, partial vehicles, even the Flakpanzer 341 would be acceptable, IF the guns were UNIQUE to the vehicle. But since they were also intended for boats and on field mounts, there is nothing unique to the Flakpsnzer 341 build since the hull is standart. Thst doesnt change that the guns WERE BUILD, and now corrected.
And the vehicle isnt FAKE, like the Tiger 105 or Panther 2 are represented in game, as it follows the actual drawings made by Germany In WW2. It just wasnt build.
And there is no selective treatment, as all vehicles get the same treatment, removal from the research.
There is no loss of standarts.
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Wasnt the beefed up japanese Me262 passed for consideration precisely because the engines, unique to it, were actually built, unlike rest of the plane?
I do not know, sry.
(i was just trying to further illustrate your point)
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Of course there is, if there are parts that are not fake or have some source on how they should be then thats how they should be. Or do you think that the F16AJ should not be subject to changes to the F16-parts that is has? There is a difference between pure fantasy and following the plan drafted for a not built vehicle. These changes are the latter.
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Then, the guns were corrected. You are missing my point. My point is that because they are removed, they shouldn’t receive any changes. Because they are removed, and usually that means you can’t play it anymore, but Gaijin chose to remove it only from research; rather than the game as a whole. Meaning a select few still have it.
Rules & guidelines for suggestions, vehicle specific rules
I don’t see how the Ki-201 is relevant to this discussion, and you leave out the other part of the post. “No major individual, vehicle-specific parts (i.e. guns, powerplants, etc.) of the vehicle were built”
Meaning that the Coealian would not be accepted, because the turret, a major vehicle specific part was not built. The guns being updated/corrected is by these standards, somewhat correct, but still not entirely so – because they also wouldn’t be accepted because they are not intended for the vehicle as Ghostmaxi himself states.
Again, I will re-iterate, my core point is that because these vehicles are removed they should not receive any changes to them. Because by the standards laid out, they would not be accepted. Your point regarding the F-16 is arguably a different case, because the vehicle was tested by the Japanese in the configuration it is in game. The Coelian and other removed vehicles are not in the same category at the F-16AJ.
The guns, sure, you can argue for the changes to them being valid – but it still goes against what I am trying to say, the fact that these vehicles are removed and as such, I think it’s fair that they receieve no changes to their modeling, and should be put in a state of limbo in terms of their balance.
What you cannot argue for, is the changes to the armor of the turret, which was never built.
By the logic applied in this bug report, the T-34M (A-43) should be a vehicle that is for addition, but it of course isn’t. But because the Flakpanzer 341 is a unique case of a vehicle that is ahistorical and already in the game, the changes can be applied, despite how they relate to a aspect of the vehicle that is the very reason for it’s removal.
That is the issue here, and is what I mean by selective balancing. It’s contradictory to Gaijin’s standards, but because the Flakpanzer 341 has a unique status of already being in the game – it is allowed. It shouldn’t be so, and is why I think these vehicles should be put in a state of balance limbo.
While this is unrelated to the main debate, please don’t join the conversation and immediately ping someone else to argue on your behalf while repeatedly interjecting to reinforce their points. It comes off as a pile-on. Thanks.
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Well thats just your opinion, but that doesnt mean its right. Yeah i made a report for the Turret armor, because it was wrong to the turret, that it was removed because it wasnt build, doesnt mean it shouldnt/cant be corrected to be how it would have been. That all still doesnt change, that its still removed from research.
You starts to sound like strawman arguments. Overall it rather doesnt matter and i decided to just dont answere you anymore, we are turning in circles and i simply dont care no more (about your opinion).
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