I have my own MiG-21bis-SAU in German TT but, it is really questionable that they can win against F-16A/ADF in duel situation.
“B-b-but ARB is not full of duel!!” Is the most braindead and down to earth stupid thing. That’s because ignoreing 1vs1 situation is pointless for comparison of vehicles eath other.
Only ways for MiG-21s win against F-16A is being rat and pray that falcon players are dumb fuck.
@Apfelsator
Alright, I found my sim [3+ hours of gameplay] Mig-21Bis.
It was the Bis SAU, so I did play that one in 2023 as well. I thought I didn’t, and I thought the Finnish Mig-21Bis was the one I used for sim.
Here are those results using R-3s.
No death, 10 frags.
Despite me being trash in and prior to 2022, I have a KDR of 0.7:1 in air RB for Mig-21Bis SAU using R-3s and gun. I was also worse at being a fighter player then, as shown by the fact I absolutely destroyed air sim with it in 2023 for two matches before I went back to ground RB.
And for the Swedish Mig-21: 7 frags, 8 deaths.
With teams that left me with a <40% win rate in both.
So yeah, the only thing that I struggled with was teammates leaving me to die to 3+ enemies.
HEY
How is relevant your SBEC stats that has complently different gameplay and meta to the Jet RB match???
BTW current MiG-21bis is not good in sim anymore because we don’t have 11.0BR cap.
They brought up stats as some sort of way to dismiss my wisdom I guess; wisdom that largely isn’t from me but from thousands of other players I’ve learned from across 15 years of multiplayer games.
Here’s what makes a good air RB player irrelevant of what afterburning jet you’re in, emphasis on afterburning:
1- You stick near 2+ other fighters, they could be fighters doing a bombing run, as when they’re done they’ll be fighters. AKA be part of a wolf pack.
2- You stick to speeds of 0.9 - 1.05 mach during engagements, and only drop for ALONE enemy combatants.
Retain speed at all costs.
With those 2 pieces of wisdom, you will do far better for your team
Advanced tactics: Witness trajectory of enemies, and turn INTO their turn opposite 180 degrees.
AKA force a head-on.
Do this in a direction to where you’ll be speeding toward allies if you’re alone, and under threat.
An F-16A, no matter how maneuverable, cannot catch a Mig-21Bis that does this for over 10km.
All of this: Use air doctrine when able. This is a team game, so we must act like it.
I didn’t use my Mig-21Bis in its cap, I fought against Mirage F1s, F-4J/S, and Mirage 2000s using it… as a virtual joystick user.
Me when the F-16 pilot literally and simply does a lead turn:
Except lead turns are countered; I don’t have a name for the maneuvers I use, but it’s all around forcing them into a near-head-on situation where they have to exert more effort to get on your tail than you do to get on their tail or escape. Granted, fight or flight is a quick decision that’s made right before and at the “merge”.
As I said, every action has a potential reaction.
You have at minimum 5km of warning.
The slowest sustained turn speed is 13 degrees per second, at a speed of 300 meters per second, 5000 meters is more than 200 degrees of turn.
This is wisdom I learned in like 2021/2022, one of the years.
It was the first ever defensive flying maneuver I learned to use less flares and just get better positioning.
I’ve exploited this with the Q-5A the most, which is why I have so many destroyed ground targets despite being hunted by F-5Cs, F-104s, F-8Es, F3 demons, Mig-19s, and so on.
Q-5A is the worst Mig-19 derivative in the Mig-19 flight performance area, so its survival relies on team mates and a good head.
If you want to give the next F-16 you see a headache and you’re in an 11.7 or less, using aggressive defensive flying against them is hilariously potent.
It’s how I got two aces in back-to-back matches using F-4EJ Kai against Mig-29s and F-16s.
Your already high performance in many aircraft could be increased further.
Of course, I am not a teacher so my explanations are likely trash for you to learn something from.
Bro you are coping so much, it is so funny.
Mig21bis is outmatched on every single aspect by the f-16 (and it should be since its full br lower). But all the “knowlage” you want to sell us is worthless.
You cant expect random teammates to help you out since most of the time they will focus on their own.
As someone said if you want to be effective in mig 21bis you have to play like a rat and ambush other players.
The only thing mig21 can do against f-16 is to force reversal, or start at the 6 of the falcon, even then if f-16 pilot knows what he is doing he can as defyn says “drain your balls” and run circels around you.
Mig 21 is not bad, it can do good but it relies on enemy being bad or blond and it is no apex predator, but a support fighter that needs it team to stay alive.
The only time when mig21 runs trains over f16 is when mig is on low fuel, while f16 is not
If I know you want to do this I will literally perform a syrian turn and start aligning our vectors
Another 1v1 argument…
Dude, War Thunder is not a 1v1 game.
It is basically 1-4v16 since most blue teams are useless af and bomberdads usually gets wiped by AIM-54s before you kill them in first few mins.
Whatever, although this game is a team game, most of the time teammates are either useless or braindead just like full bombload MiG-23ML.
They would be 12.3 if the top BR was higher than just 13.0, those MF have fox-3’s while planes at 12.0 don’t (only the F-14 has) and they still facing each other.
Tbh, Hungarian MiG-29s can go 12.7BR with R-73 and R-27ER/ETs because they doesn’t have 12.7BR planes rn.
i never said 11.0’s face full teams of 12.0, i said they face 12.0’s and no, the top BR vehicle balancing isnt a necessity for the matchmaker.
the maximum amount of top BR vehicles is capped to 4 but that isnt a requirement.
there can and are matches where one team has all 4 of the top BR vehicles, while the other team has none and these matches have increased in occurance.
that this is a thing has been stated by gaijin multiple times before, latest example is this post:
note here that the post explains how the matchmaker works in its basic design, that isnt specific to the 11.0-12.0 BR that is the context of that thread.
so no you are wrong alvis, it is entirely possible that a team full of 11.0/11.3 can face an enemy team with 4 12.0’s while not having a single 12.0 on their side(or even an 11.7 for that matter).
this is how the matchmaker is programmed,
again you claim something that is not rooted in the actual factual situation of the game.
heck, there are even matches where the matchmaker puts less players on one team compared to the other, so you can end up with 3 or even 4 less people on your team, i’ve seen that often enough.
i know, i played 11.0’s before the changes to their stock loadout but again, that has changed years ago, further suggesting you havent touched 11.0(at least stock vehicles) in a long time.
and while its true that the mig-21bis(and its variants) only got stock R-60’s in an update this april, the change from R3S as stock missiles to R-13M’s was done in february 2022, and R-13M’s are much better then Aim-9B’s.
they can still be used effectively at 11.3(where the Mig-23MLD comes with them as stock missiles), i know because i flew the Mig-23MLD stock with it last year.
so yeah nah, another one of your claims that isnt rooted in the factual situation in the game.
sources here:
and here:
just because 11.0/11.3’s dont see limitless 12.0/12.3’s, doesnt mean they arent compressed.
again, as i pointed out above, thats not how the matchmaker works, just because the enemy team might have up to 4 top RB(in this discussion 12.0 planes), doesnt mean you are necessarily even have a single 12.0 on your own team.
just that sim isnt really that relevant to the balancing issues in air RB but i am sure you know that.
and in 2022 there where no F-16’s and other 12.0’s around, so the issue wasnt even there.
so your experience and stats from that timeframe also isnt really relevant to this conversation or the issue mentioned in the OP, the one this thread is about.
you are arguing general and basic tactics, this thread is about the issue of BR compression and how a particular BR range is affected by it currently.
you are denying that there is an issue of BR compression and your “arguments” of why you deny that the issue exists, is basic jet combat tactics? how does that make sense?
edit:
funniest part is you are suggesting forcing head-ons against 12.0/12.3’s that come with all-aspect IR missiles and SARH/ARH missiles, thats one of the worst things you can do in a 1v1 at that BR range against any half decently capable pilot xD
My man has great optimism.
The discussion is clearly named “why is f16a and MiG 29 not at 12.3.”
Where did the MiG 21 bis come in play?
I personally dont really see the f16, mig29 and m2k as too strong at their current br. They get sucked up a decent bit and can hang on reasonably wel in an uptier. They also get a lot of downtiers but in my experience (not scientific) most of the downtiers are to 11.3 not 11.0.
I also think a lot of people seem to forget or atleast remember less the amount of times 11.0 gets downtiered or only slightly uptierd to 11.3.
I found that the mig21bis and j7e can hold its own very well in an uptier and while the f4e struggles a lot more in a uptier it dominates more in a downtier (due to having more potent missiles specifically for a downtier). I haven’t spaded the j8b so i dont know about that plane but i feel like it falls in between these 2 groups.
For me the problems feels more the 11.3 tot 12.0 region especially 11.7. I feel like that is the most compressed br area. 12.0 vs 11.3/11.0 feels fair but the m2k c4, and the f14a just feel so out of place against f5e’s and j35xs not to mention strike aircraft like the su22. The only thing is that these planes also dont belong at 12.0 since their better variants are already present there.
The only way i can see the f14b, m2k, f16a and mig 29 going up to 12.3 is iff they move the topdogs to 13.3, the 11.7 meta planes tot 12.0, leave the non meta 11.7 planes like the jh7a at 11.7 and maybe shuffle the 12.3 and 12.7 planes a bit but thats just my take and that would be too much change
However, for the F-14A/B, if the AIM-54 is reworked, those BRs can go up to 12.0/12.3 because they could pull 24-25Gs.
yep, this is pretty much what this discussion is about.
there is certainly 11.3’s that can hold themselfs really well against 12.0/12.3’s with not that many issues, but there is also quite a few 11.3’s that cant.
same goes of course for 1.0 planes in their uptiers and applies in part to some 10.7’s.
one could argue the whole BR range of 10.7-12.3 is in dire need of BR decompression.
planes like the F-5E’s could certainly be moved to 11.0 if not for the fact they would then meet 11.7 and 12.0 planes much more often.
yet in a downtier to 9.7/10.0, the F-5E’s are easily dominating.
top BR shouldnt be 13.0 but more like 13.7 or even 14.0, with decompressing the BR ranges below accordingly but gaijin is fighting tooth and nail for even adding a single BR step more every time.