Maybe re designate the the Current Centruion Mk3 as a Mk5 and give it the 20 pounder type B barrel? that way there is more variance between them? IDK again, just throwing ideas around to see what sticks.
See my first post in this thread. Caernarvon was called “FV221, Tank, Medium Gun, Caernarvon.” It was an interim medium tank until the Conqueror was ready.
“FV221 Interim Medium Tank”
This is why the Conqueror is called “FV214, Tank, Heavy No. 1, 120mm Gun, Conqueror.”
Just like how the Matilda I is Infantry Tank Mk I, Matilda II is Infantry Tank Mk II, Valentine was Infantry Tank Mk III, and Churchill was Infantry Tank Mk IV.
Conquerer was the first British heavy tank.
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TECHNICALLY, the 12 Pershing’s they had were also Designated as a Heavy Tank, as they used the American designations, and at the time the Pershing was still considered a Heavy Tank by the US Army. It wasn’t until a few years post war it was redesignated a Medium.
Oh yes totally… its not like its a Huge over pressure magnet by no skill Fake shell spamming tigers.
Speaking of the Lend Lease Pershings there is like a 90% Chance the Russians get their SINGLE Pre Production T26, before the British get one of their 12… which will be total Bull.
So? That has nothing to do with the Caernarvon always being a medium.
A45/FV201 capital tank or universal tank (tank that does everything), effectively another name for an MBT - in WT a medium.
The British completely redesigned the hull but the Conqueror turret wasn’t ready yet, so they slapped Centurion Mk III turrets on them. Called them FV221 Caernarvon and classified them as medium tanks.
Only when the Conqueror turret was put onto these vehicles did they become a heavy tank.
I was just saying you were technically wrong saying the Conqueror was the FIRST British Heavy Tank (atleast in classification, the Churchills late war started doing much more Heavy Tank Work, instead of just supporting Infantry)
There are many a Reports of the British sending in Churchills to break up Armored pushes, and to route out German tanks in towns and such, as they could easily stand up to anything that wasn’t a Panther, or Tiger 1/2
Thinking out loud here, But Fury With Churchills would have been funny as hell, as Tigers always strugled with the Churchills armor, even on Mk3s. IN the desert the first 2 Tigers Ko’d by western allies were disabled by a squad of Churchill IIIs with no losses themselves.
So imagine just the tiger dual, But Churchills MKVIIs that just keep shrugging off rounds and slowly advancing on a tiger thats stuck in a ditch and its only way out is TOWARDS THEM.
Just for your consideration, M4A2 76mm (W) is just “slightly worse” than M4A3E8 76mm (W). It has no APCR and slightly worse engine but retains the 76mm gun with M61.
It sits at 5.3 and E8 sits at 5.7
Centurion Mk3 with “slightly” worse stabiliser and no APDS wouldnt sit at 6.7, because it still has AP with slightly more pen than long 88.
Centurion Mk2 sits at 6.7 with just 17pndr.
Earliest medium with comparable firepower on its AP shell is Panther II at 7.0 - which again lacks stab and has MUCH worse turret (while having better hull and better mobility).
Before you go that Charioter is medium with 20pndr at 6.3, Centurion would be much better platform than it, and Charioters plays more like a tank destroyer than medium.
Not to mention the whole issue you proposed with making this would be centurion stab a short stop one, since now you would have to change stab on Centurion mk2 as well, which is, IIRC, full one.
But, so that im just not criticizing, what i would do is to change the Centurion mk2 to some unique variant and name, maybe add (Korea) to its name and hardbake the korean war roundels into its skin; then make plain Centurion mk2 variant a TT one.
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Im trying to find the blasted Photo of that… I know it exists, of just two tigers battered to death in north africa… And they aren’t tiger 131 either, They both have UFP and LFP penetrations.
Thinking further, T-44-100 at 7.0 has similiar firepower too, yet again no stab, worse turret but better hull and its faster.
This also offers an invitation to bring T-34-100 into comparison, same AP round as T-44-100 but sits at 6.3 instead of 7.0.
But, its armor is the same as 5.3 T-34/85, catapulting 5.3 medium hull one whole BR higher. T-34-100 is again in similiar situation to charioter - while called medium, its kit and playstyle is more reminiscent of tank destroyer.
TL;DR 20pndr centurion at 6.7 would murder everything.
Bruh now im going to go insane looking for this picture, I KNOW it exists.
its two tigers in North Africa, one closer to the Camera, the other farther away like it was trying to reverse into cover, The one in front has a Track broke off and many holes punched in it, and the one in back looks mostly intact except for the Many penetration holes on its Frontal armor.
Yeah fair enough. It was just a thought. They only way they could even start to make that work is if they nerfed the reload hard. which TBF they have done to the Chieftains, where they reload in 8 seconds, despite having basically the same internal layout as the Challengers which reload in 5 seconds
I wasn’t wrong. Churchill’s remained infantry tanks. Even the Black Prince was still an infantry tank. Doesn’t matter what role they were used for, all tanks did those roles. Valentines and Matilda’s were used as cruiser tanks, that doesn’t suddenly make them cruiser tanks in British tank doctrine.
If you have a tank, you’re not going to sit around and wait for the appropriate tank to show up. You’re just going to use the tank you have.
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Tortoise pretty much is a heavy tank. Also can we talk about how the FV4005 is still 5.3? It’s just a worse m55
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You were tho? The M26 Pershing, as recieved by the British, and tested by them WAS a Heavy Tank. it was their first properly Designated Heavy Tank.
When did I say anything about the M26? The US considered it a heavy tank. The British tested a US heavy tank. The Americans later reclassified it into a medium tank.
It’s got nothing to do with Churchill’s, Caernarvon, or the Conqueror.
The British were in ownership of a Heavy Tank, before the Conqueror.
12 of them infact.
So? It wasn’t built by the British and wasn’t used in British service.
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The FV4005 is 6.3 and yeah, it’s worse than the M55 in pretty much every way.
Even if HESH worked properly, the M55s HE is much more versatile on top of the M55 being much more mobile and better protected.
As for the lack of a heavy tank at a specific BR, there is no tech tree worthy heavy tank that could be added at that BR and that’s completely fine.