Why I believe the F-117 should be in the 9.0-9.3 range instead of 10.0

Please remember that this is an opinion piece and please treat it as such, as its only my opinion.

Let me preface this by saying that I am very excited for the F-117, its one of my favorite planes and seeing it in the trailer for Firebirds got me the most excited i’ve been for a video game since Halo Infinite released (i’m a massive halo fan). So you can’t even imagine the hype I was feeling when I heard it was at 8.7 for realistic, only for those feelings to be squashed when I later heard that it was going to be 10.0 for ground rb. Below I will argue some points for why I believe it should be lower than 10.0.

Lets go over the obvious strengths of the Nighthawk. Its very stealthy and has a very low rcs (0.001 to be exact) which will make it hard to detect by most radars. Its got 2 very good bombs it can drop (GBU-16’s if I am not mistaken). As well as its very good performance at night, which is its preferred environment to be flown in. These factors combined make it a very capable aircraft for bombing.

However it also has some downsides as well, in regards to its performance as well as its role as a bomber. First off its very slow and sluggish, Lockheed had to make major design concessions in exchange for making it as stealthy as possible. It cannot go supersonic and it handles like a pig, making it very vulnerable if a fighter gets close or a missiles gains lock. Speaking of missiles it also has no countermeasures, making getting detected a death sentence for even some of the best nighthawk pilots. Obviously it has no offensive armament (except for a few unconfirmed stories of pilots attaching sidewinders to the rails in the bomb bay) so it cannot defend itself in a dogfight. It also can only carry 2 bombs, which is a bit lackluster for 10.0.

Now lets talk about the real issue with the nighthawk, br placement and its role on the battlefield. The nighthawk in grb is at 10.0, and after the recent changes the 10.3 lineup got raised to 10.7, meaning that the nighthawk will more often than not face vastly superior planes and also anti air that surpass it in both bombing capability and detection capability. This results in an aircraft with lackluster performance for the br along with lackluster payload for the br. But lets still go over some CAS planes that are better than it at a similar br.

A-10: slightly better performance alongside massive improvement in payload. It can carry mavericks, gbu’s, has a gun, countermeasures, and aa missiles. (10.7)
A-7d/e: better performance with a better and larger payload, it lacks agms but that should not be much of an issue for a skilled pilot. It has a gun, countermeasures, as well as aa missiles. (10.3) (10.7)
F-111a: incredible flight performance alongside a massive payload. It has a gun, countermeasures, missiles, maws, rwr. (10.7)
Su-25: very good flight performance with a good payload despite being quite heavy, has very trolly armor, countermeasures, a gun, aa missiles, agms, and an assortment of unguided munitions. (10.3)

So in conclusion the F-117 will be a lackluster aircraft with very little impact on the battlefields of 10.0 and above. Its main advantage of stealth will not make much of a difference against both spaa and planes present at those tiers, and the advantage of flying at night will be useless as the majority of the playerbase do not play night battles. The way I personally would fix this is by lowering the br to either 9.0 or 9.3, where its main advantage of stealth actually will be useful, instead of just a hinderance to its performance.

Please remember this is just my opinion, any constructive criticism is welcome, and please keep it civil.

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tbh that plane is usless so I didnt even bother to read all that… Good for you, hope they dont even put this plane in game because it will be usless… thats mine personal opinion

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I firmly disagree.

The stealth/IR model appears to be WIP and may improve.

Instead of lowering the BR I’d rather see it’s capability improve as much as possible to justify the current or a higher BR

Again theres some unchangeable things that mean it will be heavily outclassed at 10.0. Most other bombers have decently sized payloads, other bombers have countermeasures and defensive weapons, other bombers have better flight characteristics. Now compare things like an Su-25 or an A-10 to the nighthawk. The frogfoot and warthog have guns, countermeasures, larger payloads, better payloads, decent flight characteristics. What does the F-117 have? 2 gbu-16s and the ability to get slightly closer to the targets before being detected but still being well out of range of bombing. It has no guns, no countermeasures, no air to ground missiles, no air to air missiles, cannot go supersonic, has horrible flight characteristics, etc. none of these things can be improved as none of them were ever on the actual nighthawk, maybe except for putting sidewinders in the bomb bays that actually would be pretty nice because it could at least defend itself.

Depending on how generous Gaijin is in the modeling of the Nighthawk’s IR reduction measures, they wouldn’t be needed. This was the conclusion the IRL designers came to in the end.

The handling isn’t that bad. It can be made to work, I have flown several mock engagements against friends in custom battle with it and it can dodge Roland VT-1 and 2S6 missiles at intermediate distance with some skill and good timing.

Potentially the ability to overfly your target without ever being detected. Again, I made several successful runs in custom battles where I was never detected on search radar. The stealth is still WIP I believe and it has some gaping flaws, extremely poor stealth to the rear is one of them. I was able to avoid this problem by approaching in a climb angle, such that I reduced my approach speed and gave the bombs more time to reach the SPAA before I passed overhead and exposed the unstealthy rear. Vulnerability to IRST and thermals is also too high. Again, this can be improved if Gaijin wants to.

I did find a source that states the Nighthawk was tested/cleared to use JSOW glide bombs and JASSM cruise missiles. The JSOW has GPS and IR guided variants. Details here: AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon: Silent and Precise Sawing - #2 by Apollo_1641

I want this personally, because there are some quotes by prior pilots that state this was technically possible. The likelihood is slim though, considering how strict Gaijin is with sourcing, and AFAIK there are no solid sources that prove this capability to the required degree.

If it does, it may be interesting to use in night battles, especially in sim.

But that’s about it, I’m afraid.

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Just as an fyi I cannot play on the dev server as I am an xbox player, so I have not been able to test out the nighthawk yet. So all of what I have said is based on what I have seen from other people.

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Fair enough! I won’t hype up the plane too much, as it has some critical flaws still.

Let’s see how it goes.

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A-6E is 10.7, Q-5L is 10.3, Super Etendard is 10.3, AMX is 10.7, Buccaneer S2B is 10.3…
ZERO laser GBU aircraft are below 10.0 in BR.
So no, F-117 should stay 10.x in BR for ground battles.

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Note F-117 does not even have a RWR, and on all maps at all daytimes except dawn/dusk and night will stick out like a sore thumb against any background…

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Maybe this camo would help, if Gaijin added it as an official skin visible to all players

At further range you are still visible as a black dot though, like all other aircraft in game.

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I am aware…
I haven’t noted RWR for ground battles in years at this point outside airborne radars due to how many systems are IR tracking, I just treat ground RB as I’m always locked by something.
At 10.0 [dev’s preliminary BR] it’d be in my 10.3 lineup, and it wouldn’t face the 12km SPAA ever, so I’d just get 2 free frags with it unless someone brings a Mirage 3 class aircraft.

It’s something I adopted when thinking of how to avoid SPAA in general when I got to Mig-27K.

Of course just like with the other non-reheat CAS listed, I’ll be taking a hot minute to get to my >6000 meters altitude.

FLIR + 2 guaranteed kills does not mean it should be 9.3 my guy…

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It is strange that it’s not stealthy from the rear. A few studies done by different universities and people measuring radar return on various aircraft and materials found that the Night Hawk’s shape suggests it’s the most stealthy from the front and the back and less stealthy on its sides. One that comes to mind is “Radar Detection and Stealth Bomber: What Future for Stealth Technology?”

Sadly, this is not a primary source, so I doubt Gaijin will treat it seriously. Then again, I don’t think anyone will ever find a nonclassified primary source for the next 30 years.

F-117-Radar-Cross-Section-RCS-36-It-can-be-noticed-that-signature-reduction-is

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Exactly!

User @FrogFlavorWater made this excellent post about the issue

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If they were to move it lower in GRB, how do any of the current systems counter it?

@9.just about anything, it’s going to be almost impossible for any SPAA to engage.

For that reason alone it should be 10.3-10.7 unless all the SPAAs get reduced .3-.7

The “black dot” thing drives me up the wall. Is it intentional or some kind of rendering issue?

BTW, has anyone tested how AI air defense reacts to the F-117, e.g. airfield SAM’s in Sim?

Hey this is little offtopic but I cant find anyone asking
So Su-25 in Ground battles dont have RWS when enemys SPAA are targeting it? Sorry for offtopic

I know its WIP but people tested it with AA systems it would have to face and most of them could lock it and get a firing solution over 5-6km. All of these systems were either 10.0 or above.

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