Why exactly are the Chieftain's at 8.7? Either decompress the 7.7 to 9.7 BR range or decrease the Chieftain's (and any similarly suffering vehicles) BR to 8.3

Every time I play these vehicles, I always find them to be slow and lackluster in general.

The Chieftain doesn’t really have much going for it. For starters, it’s slow because of its weight and horsepower. The Chieftain sacrifices mobility for armor in an attempt to be an excellent Hull-Down vehicle, in practice however, this proves to be negated entirely for one reason. The Chieftain fights vehicles with HEAT-FS, APFSDS, and Laser Range Finders. This would be fine if it was an uptier situation, but it’s not. Even in a full down tier, the Chieftain fights HEAT-FS and LRF constantly. Let’s take Sweden’s 8.0 as an example. Sweden gets the IKV-91, Strv 103, Strv 101, U-SH, T-54, and the Pvrbv 551. Apart from the T-54 and Strv 101, which are good MBT vehicles, but not Chieftain level and the Pvrbv 551, which I have not played, every other vehicle in this list does something better than the Chieftain.

The Strv 103 is a better sniper and much harder to spot. It can be a bit shaky at times but is incredibly good at shredding entire groups of enemies quickly. It also handles taking hits better than the Chieftain.

The IKV-91 is a better sniper than the Chieftain and easily outranges it. The mobility is significantly higher allowing the vehicle to exploit positions quickly. Although the vehicle is made of aluminum and lacks a stabilizer, it is typically way more dangerous than a Chieftain.

The U-SH is a cancer that, alongside the Raketenautomat, should be at least 9.0. That vehicle can easily overwhelm groups of 11.7 MBT if given the chance. That’s from experience using it at top tier. My first game in the Raketen was a sleep deprived + fever 3am Nuke, if that helps convince you.

Onto my second point. The Chieftain uses APDS. I think many of us can relate to APDS shattering and being unreliable in general. Vehicles with complex shapes such as the M103 with its turret often completely obliterates the APDS’s chance of doing significant damage (not to mention the M103 can front penetrate the Chieftain anywhere) and even the T-54’s front plate can often shatter the shell if you’re unlucky. At 8.7, many tanks trade their APDS for APFSDS, which is objectively better in so many ways. Many of these vehicles also obtain laser range finders as well. This combination means that other vehicles target the Chieftain faster and have a higher likelihood of doing damage compared to the reverse.

A prime example of this is the TAM at 8.7. The TAM has so much empty space that APDS often passes straight through without doing any damage. Even if you kill one or two crewmembers, they almost always laser you and cut clean through your turret at any range.

My final point is that the Chieftain’s armor is not what it’s cracked up to be. Even against 7.7 APCBC shells like M82 fired from a 90mm gun, the Chieftain capitulates easily without cover. There are so many weak spots and massive armor gaps that you can reliably kill this vehicle. With so many maps being urban in design, this vehicle simply fails to have any significant use. If maps were larger and the BR’s were decompressed, I could see this vehicle staying at 8.7, but until then, it fails to do much.

I know I’m not the best with words, but I’m sure many other people can relate and understand how the Chieftains have it bad. BR Decompression is killing their chances of being anything more than a free kill to other 8.7 vehicles. Decompression is needed desperately to fix this issue.

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I agree, but I would extend the need for decompression to 6.7-9.3 and tanks above 11.3

Well yeah, naturally they should all be massively decompressed. I think Ground BR 15.0 would help.

The same reason T-55AM-1 is 8.7: Armor.
Despite using the worst rounds at 8.7, T-55AM-1 and Chieftain’s armor somehow makes people do well in them.

@Bulletspam
Eh, 6.7 has no compression.
2.7 has the most compression tho.

I honestly think the game would be a lot better if they decompressed the BR. Keep all the HEATFS, ATGM, etc. stuff out of the WW2-early Cold War BR.

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I don’t agree because that would make some vehicles literally unplayable. For example, the M-51, the M56, Zachlam Tager, Type 60 ATM, etc.

It’s a simple BR tweak and decompression that the game needs desperately. That’s it.

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They can just remove those tanks from the game if they can’t be properly balanced like what they’ve done with a bunch of other German vehicles.

Just gets a bit silly at 6.0 where you have 400mm+ pen HEAT firing tanks.

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No.

They’re not as good as you think they are.

Chieftain Mk 3 should go down to 8.3.

Chieftain Mk 5 should be renamed Mk 5/4 and given APFSDS, then it can remain at 8.7.

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The only tank that has been removed due to “cant balance” is the maus. I would rather we dont tell gaijin that it is okay to remove vehicles because “it is a little hard to balance”

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Chieftains are great what do you mean
Excellent armour that holds up against nearly all KE shells if you use it properly and an insanely powerful gun. You’d have it fighting the IS-3, let alone 7.7s in only a partial uptier. It’d be only .3 above vehicles such as the T-54s as well as a massive number of other unstabilized 8.0s that already can’t beat the Chieftain at range or in a brawl due to the lack of stabilizers, armour, or firepower compared to the big British bois. In no world should the Chieftain go down, that’s something only clueless British mains can mentally justify. It’s the same arguments German mains make to try to justify the Tiger going down in BR: my armour isn’t invincible, and firepower and mobility are not the absolute best at the BR! I can’t fight anything with HEAT-FS or anything moderately mobile, they don’t wanna play nice and sit in the open for me to kill!
Additionally, 7.7-9.7 isn’t all the compressed in my experience compared to most BRs. Barring a significant expansion of BRs in general (a long shot and comes with its own issues, look at the butchering of air BRs recently) few vehicles really need decompressed. Notable exceptions are the TAM and 2IP as well as 103 family mentioned, as well as the T-72A/M1.

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The German tanks were removed for being historically inaccurate besides the Maus.

TBH they aren’t that good to play, atleast the USH isn’t. It is the slowest and most sluggish light tank in existence, in a BR overrun by Foxes and XM800Ts. It is infuriating to die to, and quite annoying to play.

The TAM needs to be 9.0. It has no business facing any 7.7 tanks. A highly mobile platoform with a decent gun, stabilizer, and janky survivability is too good for 8.7.

Raw penetration alone doesn’t make a tank good. The Super Shermans might have great pen but they’re also slow, tall, have poor gun handling and can be penetrated effortlessly by just about every single tank in the BR range. Same for basically every low-rank tank with CE ammo, the high penetration is balanced by the platform itself being abysmal.

But given you spend basically all your time seal clubbing with Rank 2/3 USSR, with bushed KV-1Es no less, I’m not surprised you’ve not learned this.

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Can’t relate, I’ve had an absolute blast everytime I’ve played the different Chieftains. A lot of people don’t know about the LFP weakspot and instead shoot the turret or UFP and non-pen. I find the APDS to be quite reliable, with good post-pen damage and angle penetration. Mobility is the greatest drawback but it’s not an unconquerable obstacle, just forces you into another playstyle compared to other MBTs.

Overall, I love the Chieftains <3

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Every single 8.7 can penetrate the Chieftain’s turret with little aiming. A large amount of 7.7 vehicles can also do the same if equipped with HEAT-FS.

The IS-3 is more mobile and can frontally kill you. If you’re hull down, it won’t have a chance, but those spots are far and few between. Even worse, many of them take ages to get to. The Chieftains are slow, so naturally, they should be allowed to use their gun and armor more to make up for that issue.

The T-54’s are excellent vehicles. I’ve got hundreds of games in them. They’d do just fine against the Chieftain. Every single 8.0 T-54 has HEAT-FS, APDS, and APHE. The T-54 is arguably a better vehicle in WarThunder anyway. It’s highly mobile, has amazing armor, and an amazing gun. Sure, they lack a stabilizer, but that’s entirely fixed when you go .3 up to the T-55.

I find it strange that you think the Chieftains are good when you’re going Negative in them yourself. I’m not even making fun of you or trying to play stats; I just genuinely don’t get how you think they’re good when even you struggle with them.

I’m not a British main and I speak from both experience using the Chieftain AND slaughtering them. I have played nearly every single Tech Tree to 8.3 at minimum. I have the experience to confidently say that the Chieftains are inferior to even many 8.0 vehicles. You’re free to look at my stats as I don’t intend to hide them.

1945 Heavy Tanks fighting 1960s Composite, LRF, and APFSDS is not “Compressed” to you? How exactly is a T32E1 regularly running into a T-55AM/D-1, TAM, or TURM-3 fair? That’s just one example of many.

This is untrue. If we look at the state of these BRs, you have vehicles like the T-72A and Leopard 2K nearly sharing a BR. Not to mention that the Leopard 2K is barely higher than a 1A5 while being better at almost everything aside from the Thermals.

Until the 103 Family get their vehicle spasming under control, they don’t need moved. Those vehicles are hard to target anything with when it’s like aiming with a seizure half the time. The TAM series, however, has no excuse. They nerfed the Leopard A1A1, which was objectively worse than the TAM and 2IP.

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They’ve been hit or miss for me, but it has had its moments.

I get shot there every game. Even when I’m across the map, some Leopard always hits my Lower Front Plate with DM13.

I wish I’d saved the clip, but I had my APDS shatter twice in a row point blank on a Type-69. No funny angle, just directly front on and on the center of his plate.

I don’t have many gripes about the Shell itself, but comparing it to other 8.7 vehicles, it’s very lackluster. APDS just doesn’t really compare to APFSDS.

That would be fine if other vehicles didn’t have the same or greater firepower as you while being significantly more mobile. What’s worse is that many also get laser range finders as well at your battle rating.

Not only is your mobility slower than everything else for little extra armor, but you’re also slower to target everything else in a BR of HEAT-FS and APFSDS.

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I’d be happy if the chieftain had the laser range finder it actually had.

The tank itself is fine. I can deal with the apds, I can deal with the slow speed and mobility, but facing dart firing tanks with laser rangefinders is a bit much sometimes.

Actually giving the chief mk5 the laser range finder it should have would help immensely on longer range maps.

There have been reports that it’s missing but no movement on it.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/7m0MVw1XOlhs

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That would help, but you’d still be slower than everything else while also lacking the APFSDS that other tanks have.

If they wanted to mend this, they could easily drop the Mk.3 to 8.3, give the Mk.5 a dart and laser range finder, and keep the Mk.10 where it is.

Because they aren’t as good as the 9.0s and they’re better than most everything at 8.3

they’re ok at 8.7